ArchaicArcane

So today, I'm in a waiting pattern. A non-driving friend may need me at a moment's notice, so I'm only doing easily picked up and put down projects.

Playing with wiring motors and lights yesterday though got me thinking about motor lube.

There are many opinions about this but I wondered how much was based on testing.
I'd like to have a discussion about this based on the preliminary results, so I'm not going to offer any of my own conclusions yet, just ask for everyone's thoughts on how to proceed.

Things I've heard:

1. The original lube is virtually indistinguishable from Vaseline
2. Vaseline will destroy your motors by liquefying too fast
3. Recent versions of Singer lube are no longer suitable for use in motors
4. A well known featherweight related vendor or two have formulated their own formulas that are quite expensive comparatively vs Singer Lube.

Since we're concerned about melting point, I'd originally thought I might pick up a candy thermometer or some other measuring device that would tell us at exactly what temperature everything was melting at but today I thought... do we need to know that? For preliminary testing at least - not really.

So, I employed my toaster oven, a paper towel and a sharpie and here's what I found.

Since my sharpie did horribly on the paper towel, here's what you're seeing.
From Left to right: 1. Original Singer Lube. 2. Vaseline. 3. "Old" Pink tube formula 4. "New" pink tube formula.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]537015[/ATTACH]

This is what the 3 lubes look like out of the tube:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]537016[/ATTACH]


I set the toaster oven temperature around 180F. The first lube melted. I eventually had to raise it to a touch over 200F to get a second lube to melt. For the last 2, I ended up raising it to 300 then 350F before the 3rd started to liquefy. Here's how everyone fared:

• First the Vaseline melted and disappeared. At this point, nothing else was showing signs of state change. Under 200F.
• Next, the "Old" pink lube percolated and boiled then spread and soaked into the paper towel - not unlike a nice cheddar cheese would do. This was about or a little above 200F.
• Then I had to wait. Easily 5 more minutes and then the "New" Pink lube started to melt. At that point I took it out of the oven and tried to take a pic. By that time, the new lube had disappeared into the paper towel. While I was watching the melting points though, I watched the New lube and the original lube saturating the paper towel virtually identically, so it was a bit of a surprise when the original lube didn't liquefy at the same time.

Thoughts? Comments?

KenmoreGal2

Oooh, a science experiment! I'm in!

On the day I just "had to" change the lube in my machines, I was unable to locate Tri Flow lubricant which was recommended by this group. I called the bike shop (nope), the sewing machine place (they only use white lithium - yikes!) and finally a car parts store who assured me their product was just what I needed. I didn't have the patience to order Tri Flow and wait, I had to do it that day...

So I bought NAPA Sil-Glyde. It says on the package that it's non melting to 600 degrees and it contains silicone like the Tri Flow does.

Here's a picture of it before it got baked in my toaster oven.

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Here it is after 5 minutes at 300 degrees.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]537018[/ATTACH]

To my eye it's not bad. Sure beats Vaseline.

(Tammi - does your toaster oven smell as funky as mine does now?)

ArchaicArcane

As far as the motors, we (or I for sure) don't recommend tri-flow grease for the motors. It's synthetic and doesn't have a melting point (or functionally doesn't. I'm pretty sure the surface of the sun would do something to its state!) I think we usually use Tri-Flow for it's PTFE additive - Telfon - not silicone but I've not had a tube of it in my hands - it's really hard to get here. Great for gears though - just like the "Super Lube" that I CAN buy here.

We ARE wanting some melt but slowly enough as to be somewhat controlled. That's how the lube is delivered to the bushings - the motor warms, which warms the shaft which warms the bushing and then the very smallest bit of the lube closest to the bushing melts and does its job but not enough to "flood" the motor.

Make sure your Sil-Glyde isn't the same. I may wander over to the neighbor's (works for Napa) place and see if he has any to look at the tube and investigate.

I wondered if my original lube didn't liquefy because of age. Perhaps it's compromised in some way.

Uh,.. "luckily" I'm french polishing today so the smell of linseed oil is overwhelming the smell of melted greases. I pity the next person (probably me) who puts a sammie in there though.

KenmoreGal2

Aw geez, MOTORS!! I thought you were doing gear grease. My mistake!!

Mickey2

I haven't got anything clever to add, though I always knew there were better greases than vaseline. Does the motor axle get that hot? I am about to rewire the motor on a 201, and what lube do I buy? I have a tube of Finish Line Ceramic grease and a very old tube of Singer grease. Something with teflon? I have to get wicks and possibly carbon brushes too.

I never thought much about the melting point but; grease have a few other factors that play a role. I have thought of it like this:

1. A sort of grittiness too smoothness factor; rub it between two fingers and feel the difference between a smooth grease like Triflow or a white lithium grease.

2. A gooeyness factor; how sticky it is and how it can slow down parts compared to a light flowing oil.

3. How well it coats the parts involved during use and how well it stands up to time.

I want something as smooth as possible, with the least amount of friction involved.

QuiltingVagabond

Interesting discussion, I think age (and the changes due to) will be hard to discount since there is no such thing as an original tube that is of recent production?

ArchaicArcane

It's OK. I only clarified in case someone read it and tried it for their motors. Gear grease - Tri-flow or SuperLube hands down for me. My concern is the motor lube because it's the one that we're having trouble with at the moment - should we or shouldn't we use it? I'm also a little skeptical of the newly developed 3rd party lube since one of the companies is the one who "developed" a new screw for the pinker attachment and sells it for a lot. I just bought the same screw at Gregg Distributors for pennies.

Well, this is exactly the situation I was thinking of. I just evaluated the wiring on a 15-91 (and topped up the grease tubes) and rebuilt the motor on the RAF - A 15-30 with what I suspect is an add-on motor.

I don't think the motor axle gets that hot. It shouldn't anyway if the belt is properly tensioned. Maybe I'll try to get one of these motors good and warm and see what temp it gets to. (or if someone else has that technology... since I have no idea what my availability will be for the next little bit.)

To be honest, the results were a little surprising to me. I'm re-evaluating what I thought about lubes.

Some people think the teflon might gum up the wicks. I haven't really decided what I think. I know in my syringe, the white precipitate (which I think is the PTFE or maybe it's the paraffin?) in the oil clogs the syringe a bit.

Somewhere, I've read that the melting point is important to the motor wick function. I'll try to remember where it is. Some Singer literature - I think.

Well, I was stunned that that the original took so long to liquefy, especially considering a video I watched not long ago. That said, I can only compare to what I have and since most people say if you have the old tube and it's not all liquid or crusty, use it... I figured it was as good a comparison as any.

ArchaicArcane

I should also mention that many "experts" say that a low melting point is important. Which makes sense because of what Mickey2 mentions - the motor axle/shaft doesn't get that hot. It also appears that there are at least 2 original formulations of the singer Lube. The UK lube has a significantly lower melting point than the US version.

Mickey2

I checked my Finish Line Ceramic grease, it's smooth and fine between my fingers, but no melting at all on a hot plate (what?). Its' a syntetic type. I imagine it will last long if I manually grase every part along the motor axle, but I'm guessing not the slightest part will ever wander off the wicks. The motor would need an annual check?

I need a new grease apparently, I did a google search and I'm non the wiser.


/me googles old fashion grease...

ArchaicArcane

That's exactly what I would have expected. Most shops say that the Finish Line brand is an exact replacement for Tri-flow. Synthetic Lubes typically don't have a melting point - which is why we say not to use them in the motors. we -want- melt to have controlled lubrication of the bushings/bearings.

I wouldn't use the synthetic, even if I was disciplined enough to check once a year. A couple of reasons - I prefer not to disturb the motor wiring more than necessary and manual checks/lubing every year is a lot of disturbance for 50 - 80 year old wiring. 2. It's not likely to always be me checking these machines. One day, I won't be around for their maintenance - whether I sell the machine or start pushing up daisies. 3. Why cause myself more work than necessary?

You need a grease with a relatively low melting point - which means it will be an organic of some sort. I find it interesting though that the 2 places that seem to say "NO petroleum jelly" are the same 2 places that sell their own "formula". Sew-Classic still recommends PJ: 4th paragraph.

I'm also going to try to pop into an electric motor shop and see what they say.