i did go to the search section and all that was in there were other questions about what abbrevations mean. it is not an easy search, that's for sure. wouldn't it be nice to have a section just for "abbreviations" and what they mean. some of the abbreviations people use are not quilting terms obviously. i guess i just prefer not abbreviations. it gets frustrating at times if i don't know what people are actually talking about! ok, all done venting. thanx!