you know what that is what we all like about this board or at least I DO your are all so help full-- I agree think I will think about your idea you are so right about the boiling bag ideas-- I do not use any sprays in my house unless it is an emergency and can't remember when that was- I can not breath well when you spray stuff in the air-- so am thinging now about the boil in bags - wonder about those bags you do vegs in oh that probably is different. Really I am glad for any hints anyone has for hints that helps keep them coming- shall try those bags for turkeys have there here even for small ones. emmy