thanks for picking up the slack for me when i tried to help. Was unable to reply back on my assist. Need to have my quilts at work to photo cause when i get home, I am off with the the kids and graduation time. On a Bernina 165, it is a number 8 in the regular category. Also on a Viking, I believe it is 8 or 9, haven't used my Viking a while so not positive. The Tute is perfect for instruction. Sorry not quick on the draw there magerialgirl.