thanks olebat. like I said, mine is rough but has hidden beauty. I tried to quit but this one showed up on my doorstep. I have 4 machines now. from a 1872 Howe with the fold out coffin box, to a 1898 and 1812 singer. Oh, a 1953 electric singer in the #5 cabinet with the curved drawers. Back to the Domestic, I'm GUESSING it's somewhere around 1890-ish. It's got at least 100 yrs of gunk on it but isn't froze/set up.I'll send pics when I figure it out and also go to your section/ thanks again