my grandmother taught me that and I just never knew how to make any other knot for sewing. Just whatever keeps the knot in place. Had to giggle inside when I saw a neighbor make a knot. She didn't know any other way. She took a very tiny piece of cloth and in and out a few times. That was her knot. I asked her if she had done a few different knots I showed her without the cloth and she was on her way w/o the cloth. The cloth was only about 1/8" square. She hand sews everything and it looks like machine.