I went in to buy a 580 and got talked into an 830. I wish I had stuck to my guns and bought the 580, the 830 is too problem prone. There is a yahoo group that is dedicated to the hassles of this precious princess of a machine that is so sensitive it can spend more time being lugged back to the shop than sewing. I have always owned Bernina, recommended it to many, but no more. I am going to trade mine in for a Brother Dreamweaver. Talk to owners before you buy.