Thanks Jan..but that isn't the part that isn't sinking in my head for some reason..hard to explain..as I said I know it is just some small thing ..I am doing wrong..I have made star patterns many times..just reall bugs me ..I can't get pass it..I guess I well try again with different tools ..maybe something is wrong there..but I doubt it..it is just some block in my head..again thanks for trying to help..