The new 830 was a learning experiment that flopped. A lot of good came out of it, but the machine needed 20 parts replaced, and they had to turn the hook 30 degrees. They learned how to make the new Bernina jumbo hook, from the experiments done with the 830. I've heard you can buy an 830 for about $2,500 on ebay. But they really can't compare to the 740, 770 and 790, which is a much better machine. The 880 is pretty good, but is so over-engineered, you've got to have a degree in physics to run the thing. The 8 Series bobbin is smaller than the jumbo bobbin in the 7 Series. Where I work, we sold 3 830s and it was a disaster. If you came into my store, I wouldn't sell you an 8 Series machine. We've had customers from other stores asking if we can fix the 830, and they've already been back to Bernina and they couldn't/wouldn't fix them. So there's a kind of re-call on them. I'd take a 790 over an 880 any day!