Thread: Keto help
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:00 PM
  #7  
UncaToddly
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 8
Default The hubby does weigh in... and he is wordy :)

Originally Posted by Iceblossom
I'll have my husband weigh in on the topic...
And here he is.

A little background on what and why a ketogenic way of eating works.

She has seen me through my full journey and has been very supportive. And she is absolutely right on the idea that you can't cheat and stay in ketosis because your body can use 1 of 2 sources for energy, glucose or ketones. Glucose is made from the breakdown of sugars and carbohydrates while ketones are made from the breakdown of fat. The body can run on one or the other but it can't run on them both at the same time. The key to this switch is insulin and among other things it does, insulin is a fat storage hormone. If insulin is elevated your body is unable to access the fat cells to break them down into ketones. When your insulin is kept very low, your body will access your fat stores for energy it needs by breaking down the triglycerides.

The one macronutrient that doesn't stimulate insulin is fat. Carbohydrates require insulin release as glucose is toxic to the body when in the blood stream and insulin's job is to get it out of there and once the liver and muscles are full it goes to fat as a form of energy for later. Protein also produces an insulin response but not nearly to the same degree as it is an essential nutrient and is used for many other processes, primarily muscle building and maintenance. Whereas fat and protein are essential nutrients in that the body must have them, carbohydrates are not. The body does perfectly fine without getting any.

So the key is to keep your insulin need low for as long as possible. If you are diabetic you need to keep in mind that reduced carbs means a reduced need for insulin shots as simply giving yourself what you are used too can cause problems with low sugar. Type 2 diabetics and pre-diabetics who go on ketogenic diets will end up severely reducing their need for exogenous insulin (that which is not produced in the body) and it is typical to see the need for it go completely away in pretty amazingly short periods of time but again, you really need to monitor your blood sugars tighter.

One of the mistakes that many people make is that they have the understanding that a ketogenic diet is a lot of meat. It can be but meat isn't the key. You can do a ketogenic diet as a vegetarian (easier due to eggs and dairy) and even as a vegan though that is much tougher but then again.... so is being a vegan for most people.

The keys are two... primarily keeping your carbohydrates very low (under 20g net will get pretty much anyone into ketosis) and eating high fat. The standard ketogenic diet is a goal of keeping to the 20g carbs range (preferably from above ground leafy greens, misc ones like in eggs and not starches) with 20% protein and 75% fat. Carbs are about keeping your insulin levels very low, protein is about having enough to maintain muscle mass and fat is about satiation and is the primary source of energy as most people will find that fat is the most satiating, carbs are the least which is the reason you can completely dorf out at a buffet, eat 6000-10000 calories and then be hungry 3 hours later.

For a great resource in a forum setting I highly recommend ketogenicforums.com just as TallChick did. You can look around without creating an account but creating an account will let you post. There are tons and tons of recipes and advice there that cover pretty much all aspects of it from people who have very long histories with using a ketogenic way of eating as well as people just starting. It was started by the the guys who started the "2 Keto Dudes" podcast which is a great resource even if it has stopped now. The same is true of The Obesity Code podcast as far as understanding the power and mechanisms of both a ketogenic diet and fasting (both extended and intermittent fasting/time-restricted eating).

To Watson:
My husband and I went full on Keto and did it for 2 months. I lost 20 pounds and then I just could not sustain it. It was making me crazy.
At 2 months in is is very possible that you weren't even fat adapted yet. For most people, the switch from being a sugar burner to a fat burner takes between 3-6 weeks but some can take longer. Also, if your only reason for it is losing weight, women have it a bit tougher there in the beginning. For women, they tend to lose inches more than pounds to start with and it can seem disheartening. Karen Mangiacotti of the Keto Families Podcast (ketofamilypodcast.com) talks about this in regards to when she and her hubby Mark Miller started. She kept with it for the health reasons but said it was really irritating to see him lose 15 pounds in a couple weeks and she lost nothing eating the same way in the beginning.

Again though, when you get over the hump of getting fat adapted and your body making the switch from using glucose as it's primary fuel to ketones (that period people typically get the electrolye imbalance known as "keto flu") it is easy. That isn't to say you won't want some of the things you used to eat all the time but from a hunger standpoint, your body doesn't need to send signals making you think it is dying if you don't eat a donut because it used up the last meal you ate. It looks around and says, "OK, I am not being given the fuel in a food form.... I will just use some of that Krispy Kreme they ate 3 years ago and got stuffed in her hip.

To Elise:
I have never done Keto. I looked into it and decided I love my carbs too much, so I eat 1200 calories a day, tracking what I eat on https://www.myfitnesspal.com
And if this works for you that is great. The problem with most people is lack of satiation and that leads to feeling deprived and people don't like to feel deprived. When I first started trying to lose weight around 4 or 5 years ago I was doing Low Carb/High Protein which for me was 85g/160g respectively. My basal metabolic rate was calculated at roughly 2100 calories so I was walking 2-4 miles a day, eating back roughly half my calories burned and eating at a deficit to keep it between 1500-1800 calories. I was eating small snacks every 2 hours with protein (hard boiled eggs, protein bars, etc.). I felt like I was always eating but didn't really enjoy any of it and always felt deprived and my day revolved around food. Eventually I found it unsustainable. Hit the holidays and I was down from 405 to 295 and then it was 2 pounds here, then 5 pounds there then the next thing you know I am back at 356.

Keto and daily 20:4 intermittent fasting/time-restricted eating.... feels like cheating it has been so effortless.

To TallChick:

I would disagree that it is "low" protein. I would classify it as moderate protein and shooting for between 0.6-0.8g per pound of lean body mass. In lieu of getting a body composition scan done (such as a DEXAScan or BodPod) you can roughly figure your lean body mass is about 75% of your total weight.

To Jingle:
Eating a high meat diet may not be good if you have high cholesterol. I would certainly talk to a doctor first. Same for high fat.
This is really out of date information. I highly recommend you look into books like "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by cardiologist Dr. Stephen Sinatra and Jonny Bowden PhD with regards to cholesterol.

I also highly recommend you read "The Big Fat Surprise: Why Butter, Meat and Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet" by Nina Teicholz. Nina spent a decade going over the studies that lead to the food guidelines we currently see and found there is zero evidence that shows proof of reducing high cholesterol, saturated fat or meat consumption decreases your risk of heart disease and more importantly, all cause mortality. You can find much from her on youtube as well as others like Ivor Cummins and Dave Feldman. So many others.

Dieting is really easy = eat less food than you burn and you will lose weight.
Again, not true, it is what you eat that matters and on top of that, satiation is a key factor with regards to hunger (which makes you want to eat) and what you eat has completely different reactions in the body. The energy balance hypothesis is way out of date despite how many people want to cling to it because it seems logical on it's face. Whether I eat roughly 2 pounds of duck or 3 pounds each of broccoli and potatoes or a large Blizzard and medium dipped cone from Dairy Queen they are all roughly 1750 calories. I can assure you that if expended the same amount of energy daily but ate nothing but the duck or nothing but the broccoli/potatoes or nothing but the Dairy Queen..... the results on my weight, and more importantly my health, will be completely different despite the fact that the calories in and the calories out don't change .
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