Just curious. Why do people think it is o.k. to copy a pattern (or, anything else for that matter) that has a copyright to it? Is it because we don't think it is a big deal? We won't get caught? No one cares? If it is copyrighted it is intellectual that the owner should be compensated for by each user. Comments?

We don't think it's o.k. here. In fact this board will delete any topics for requests to break copyright law.

we should not
if you see it happening here please send a pm to a moderator

It is definitely not ok, but I think some people do it without thinking.

some folks are just unaware

I think we've been through this before, and came to the realization that copyright means you simply cannot copy the pattern and sell it. Maybe a bad thing to do is to use it and make things to sell that are exact copies of what the pattern looks like and not give credit to the pattern maker.
BUT I suspect there are lots of pictures still in existence of old quilts exactly or a lot like theirs, made before the pattern copyrighters were even born, that obviously puts that pattern in doubt. Quilts have evolved in different states and countries over time, and lots of women have had the same ideas of what is lovely and put those ideas in their quilts.
From what I've seen here, lots if not most quilters put their own ideas in their quilts, while more or less following the guidelines of the pattern maker, who we know did work hard trying to make their patterns lovely and accurate.
There are a lot of comments in the past here that can still be accessed on this matter, for and against lots of ideas on this subject.
I think that if you make a quilt and show it, you really should give the pattern maker credit for that pattern. And also give the LA quilter credit, since that is an art form in itself. Otherwise, all that work on the quilt is the MAKER's work and no other person could duplicate it. Quilts aren't clones, (Walmart quilts excepted) I don't think anyone can or would want to make clones of their quilts, except perhaps in the case of making them for twins, and even then there should be some small difference to set them apart.

If it is copyrighted it is intellectual that the owner should be compensated for by each user. Comments?[/quote]
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The copywriter gets the money from the buyer who pays for the pattern. It then belongs to the buyer, but s/he can not SELL this actual pattern or a copy, but I think can give it or loan it to others. The resulting quilt I think can put it up for raffle or sale for charity, but the selling of the quilt, well, we've had a lot of comments on that, probably is okay, and from what I've gleaned from all the fall-out, making a quilt from that pattern for a client might be legal. Making a quilt from this pattern for gifting, I'm sure won't make any pattern maker rush to a lawyer.
If I'm not correct, please comment on this.

I thought the question was about copying the pattern, not making the product??? Maybe I misunderstood.

I was referring to copying the pattern or sharing the pattern with others.

Based on personal experience, I think several things are happening.

I think many people truly don't understand what "copyright" is.

Many people believe that when they buy a pattern - "it's mine and I can do what I want with it".

I've heard some say "Oh, just this one time won't hurt".

Also, one friend doesn't want to say "no" to another friend who asks for a copy.

People ask me all the time for a copy of a pattern I've used that they like. I have to be honest, if it's really really old, and not being published any longer, I'll make a copy, otherwise I'll tell them who the pattern maker is and let them know where they can buy it themselves. The last pattern I copied was nearly 25 years old.

A few years ago a coworker that was retiring was asking me to make copies of all sorts of patterns she wanted from me based on projects I had made. I couldn't believe how brazen she was. I gave her all the info she needed to find and purchase the patterns for herself. All were patterns individuals had created and copyrighted. She never spoke to me again! She knew exactly what she was doing, she wanted something for nothing, and I was not about to oblige her!

I have the same issue with my SIL but I just never provide her with what she asks for and eventually she forgets about it!

I believe it is illegal to copy a pattern to share with others. Everyone should buy their own pattern so that the creator is compensated for their intellectual property.

Quilt shops are very careful about this subject and always ask their students to purchase the pattern or book for the classes they conduct.

I'll echo what others have said...you may pass along the original pattern to someone else, but you may not copy it.

Copyright laws are enacted to protect the original creator's rights to benefit economically from their work, and to receive due recognition for their creativity. The law states that another may not infringe on their right to PUBLISH the work. Many times you will see the phrase that the item (a pattern) can be photocopied, enlarged, modified, etc. for the purchaser's own use, but not multiplied with the intention of sharing it with the entire group of quilters, or subscribers to your website, etc. Sometimes it is techniques that are subject to copyright or patent.

<grin> and congrats!!

I would be surprised if anyone on this board would actually say that making copies of copyrighted materials is okay. But my question is what about tutorials? If someone posts a tutorial on the board and gives measurements and demos a technique in a published pattern isn't that the same thing?

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The copywriter gets the money from the buyer who pays for the pattern. It then belongs to the buyer, but s/he can not SELL this actual pattern or a copy, but I think can give it or loan it to others. The resulting quilt I think can put it up for raffle or sale for charity, but the selling of the quilt, well, we've had a lot of comments on that, probably is okay, and from what I've gleaned from all the fall-out, making a quilt from that pattern for a client might be legal. Making a quilt from this pattern for gifting, I'm sure won't make any pattern maker rush to a lawyer.
If I'm not correct, please comment on this.[/quote]

Legally, you can sell the actual pattern, but not a copy...it's just like cd's and dvd's.....what you make from the pattern is yours and can altered or made exact without giving credit to anyone. They made the pattern to sell and that is where they get their credit and $$$. What I do with the pattern once in my possession is my business. If I so choose to let everyone know what the pattern is called and where to get it....good for me, but not required.

Ok i think i understand...If i use a pattern out of one of my quilt mags from 1987 is it mine? i bought the book the pattern is in the book, right?

I think this is a very confusing idea, but I wondered if the copyright has an ending date.

I do know from my late FIL, who patented plants, that his patents had a life span of about 17 years, after that anyone could take cuttings, grow and sell those same plants under any name they choose to put on them. That was in the 1960s, I think now it's 20 years.

But intellectual property seems to be far different. This is what I found on the Internet.

On the other hand, this doesn't bother me since I find it difficult to follow intricate patterns and much prefer to make up my own, or some I find in old family pictures. Those I suppose could be legally "mine" if I would care to do something about them, but they look a lot like most you see now so there's no problem about doing something like them.
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How long does a copyright last? In 1998, Congress fine-tuned the law to allow works to be copyrighted for the life of the creator plus 70 years. This means that 70 years after the creator dies, the copyright expires if no family heir files for an extension to renew it. After that it is in “Public Domain,” allowing anyone to use the work. So the fact that a magazine, book or pattern is out of print, or the author is dead, does not mean you can copy it.
(Or at least until it is so old no one could read the printing?)

Copywrited written (Published) works (in the U.S.A.) have a copyright that expires 70 years after the Death of the copyright owner. That time frame gives the spouse/children/grandchildren/corporation time to collect $$$ on the publication, through republication, re-creating it in different forms (from script to book to recorded book, to braille, etc) for a very generous amount of time.

WHEW!!! More questions than answers. I will have to call my cousin, the corporate lawyer... you know, the smart one. I got all the good looks...

I've certainly shared patterns with individual quilters, especially if they are old - the patterns that is not the quilters!! No money changes hands, and credit is always given to the originator.

In a lot of cases, a "pattern" is not original - its made up of well known blocks - the particular layout or the colours chosen are what makes it unique, and this can be an inspiration to others. I don't know who owns the "copyright" for say the nine patch or Jacobs Ladder or Ohio Star or any other well known block. In terms of actual quilting, we all copy and use feathers, scrolls, flowers, stars, leaves etc, and nobody ever thinks of a breach of copyright.

If you go to a website like QuiltersCache, some of the block patters are marked as "original" and the user is asked to respect that - ie don't pass it off as your own, and try and make money out of it.

Just my thoughts on the issue - haven't taken legal advice or anything!!

I know from looking at embroidery designs on the net that some Companies out there put up design for sell and it says they are copyrighted ...... Well, a lot of them were taken from FREE clipart and claimed. I saw two or three on one site that I reconized, so I went back and checked my FREE Clip Art that I bought and paid for, and there the designs were, exact dups.
I also digitized some of the designs that I have in my stash and intend to use them as I see fit. Most of mine I use on my quilts or quilts for others. If they want to claim copyright, they need to DRAW a design/pattern themselves. Most quilt patterns have been around for so many years that no one know where they came from.
Anyway.....
Syl

I have had users here suggest copying a pattern that I'm looking for. I would never want to offend someone, but I always decline.

Oh my gosh, I just asked someone on here if I could make a small quilt like hers. I meant with the same concept not the same exact quilt. Am I in trouble?

It's not okay to copy a pattern without consent and usually the owner consents to personal use and in some cases to charity groups to duplicate or use their pattern.
And give credit where it's required. Post the link where you got the pattern from, give due credit as respect.

Before copying or duplicating any pattern, one must read the disclosure/rules requested by the copyright.

LOL see what you started.....but really it's a need to know question.
My nephew is also a corporate lawyer up north. I will have to run it by him also.
Syl

Legally, you can sell the actual pattern, but not a copy...it's just like cd's and dvd's.....what you make from the pattern is yours and can altered or made exact without giving credit to anyone. They made the pattern to sell and that is where they get their credit and $$$. What I do with the pattern once in my possession is my business. If I so choose to let everyone know what the pattern is called and where to get it....good for me, but not required.[/quote]

This is my understanding of the law.

I follow this:

Do not copy a pattern to give or sell.

Do not claim a design or pattern of another as your own.

Anything other then that are rules the designer or publishing co want you to follow. Rules are not a legal matter. The rules are always listed right under the copyright law making it appear as part of the copyright.



It's legal to show how a pattern is made (tutorial) but not copy any text or image from the original pattern.


Neighbor's law firm represents a big craft/pattern publishing company.

I do not understand your comment. What does Walmart have to do with this? My Grandmother made two of the same design and fabric a lot. One for my sister and one for me. Plus I know a lot of quilters that have a favorite pattern they continue to use.
I notice that many of the "new" designs have several of the old patterns in them but the designer is taking credit.

Thank you for bringing this up. I am a brand new quilter and frankly this had never even been in my thinking until now. I have several times asked people on the board if they would share their pattern for a particular quilt that I just fell in love with. Most times they would send me a link to where they bought it. Great! I appreciated it. Now I'm wondering if they were thinking I was trying to get away with something. I didn't understand there were copyrighted patterns and such. I bet most people don't realize it until it is brought to their attention.

I used to belong to a charity knitting group and we swapped patterns and books and such all the time. Were we breaking the law? I would think once I bought a book of patterns if I wanted to share it, shouldn't I be able to? And at work, we all read the same authors. One will buy a book and then it gets passed around. Cuts our reading expenses. If libraries can do this, why can't I? And what if I find a great quilting book in the library - I can't use the pattern??? Ok, now I'm getting a headache. :) I want to do the right thing, just confused as to what exactly that is! Virg

If you just swapped the original, that's fine. But if you took a purchased pattern & made 15 photocopies of it, that is illegal. Sure, who is going to turn you in? But I want to keep the designers in business & that is done thru actual sales of their designs.

Quilts aren't clones, (Walmart quilts excepted)
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I do not understand your comment. What does Walmart have to do with this?
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Lots of quilts are sold by Walmart and are made in China, which seems to be the major producer of such things, and lots of them are, or seem to me to be duplicates. I haven't spent that much time on checking for accuracy, but China doesn't seem worried about copyrights, so I won't either on the quilts Wally sells.

I have a pattern that I'm waiting for someone to want badly, so since I also love it, I'll make ME a copy and then give it to them. I think that would be legal, since someone bought this for full price and I in turn bought it at a flea market at a vastly reduced price, so if I give it to someone it should not be illegal.
Or even selling it in a yard sale...makes my head spin, thinking of all the twists and turns of the law.

Ok, I'm getting that. And I agree - anyone who is that creative needs to stay in business. Now where does that put the garage sales, the used book stores, the selling of used books and magazines on this board, etc... I would think if used book stores were doing something illegal, somebody would have put a stop to them by now.

I am one that does not share/copy patterns. I have no trouble telling someone where I got my pattern though.

I have copyrighted things in the past. What I am under the impression of the laws is that you cannot make a printed copy of the pattern and SELL it as your own. I still do not understand how the designers put several vintage patterns together and then call it their own.

As both a quilter and pattern maker, I do not accept the idea of copying patterns to "share" with a friend. Designing and selling patterns is how I make a living. I am thin enough and need the money for groceries. So please, you and your friend, buy the pattern and help me keep food on the table:-)

Well, to be honest, I sometimes will post a topic to find out what other people think. But, also to get them to think. A brain that is left idle is laid to waste. And, I enjoy the comments and sometimes learn from them! <grin>

I do not copy patterns for friends, but I also rarely purchase a pattern. There are so many free patterns and ideas on the web, and I need to be able to purchase groceries also.

What about a class that you take and you are given a photocopy of a pattern that the class is making. Is the author of the pattern getting the credit or do we need to ask the teacher if this pattern is copywrited? I am confused. Also, if I make a quilt block from a pattern and post a picture of the quilt I made from this block and someone wants me to do a tutorial, am I breaking the law by doing a tute? I am sure that the person who did a tute on the folded dahlia did not design the pattern (or maybe they did LOL).