OK, so we all know that there's no such thing as a free lunch, right?

Background: There are several ways to charge for shipping when you're operating an online store.

1. Weight and distance-based shipping, where you charge everyone actual shipping charges. This means you have to overestimate a lot of orders and end up adjusting charges down when you ship, because you have to account for packaging weights, which vary based on the amount of product ordered. Stores that do this tend to have higher free-shipping limits, but small orders have very low shipping charges for the customer.

2. Flat rate shipping, where you charge shipping according to the amount purchased. Example: 0-10 dollars = $3.95 for shipping, 10-20, $4.95, etc. This is more predictable for the customer and you probably lose fewer orders due to high shipping quotes for first-time customers. Stores that do this also tend to have lower free-shipping limits. The little secret is that the larger, free shipping orders are being subsidized by the masses of smaller orders that are being overcharged for shipping. It's all in the math, and believe me, everyone who is shipping product looks at the math and analyzes their order stream when setting their shipping policies.

So, my questions, for you online fabric shoppers are:

a. Do lower free shipping limits entice you to buy more, or less?

b. Is predictability of shipping costs in your ordering important to you, or would you rather be surprised when your shipping cost is lower than quoted?

c. Do you walk away from an order if shipping costs are quoted too high, or do you take the time to check the store's shipping policy?

d. Does having a lower free shipping limit compensate you for paying too much for shipping on smaller orders?

I have a lot more questions, but these are probably enough for one post.

Thanks in advance for your help in my research!

I tend to purchase from free shipping sites. Like free shipping on orders over $35. or $50. I like to know up front what the shipping is.

I usually wait until stores have specials running with free shipping. For example I just made a purchase from Fabric.com with free shipping over 35 dollars. I only purchased fabrics that were on sale and I got a lot for my money.

I don't like it when they will only give me the shipping charges AFTER I give them my cc number :thumbdown:

I like flat rate shipping.
Example: 0-10 dollars = $3.95 for shipping,

So I know the exact total cost at time of order.

I can't afford to place a large order. Therefore, I look for an online store that has the lowest shipping price available for the smaller orders. (I never order more than $20 at a time.)

Hope this helps!

I agree. Many times I have found something I just love, put it in my shopping cart, but when I find out the shipping, I delete the order.

This is kind of a double edge sword especially with me refurbishing/restoring vintage machines. Everyone digs the free shipping but on something that big and heavy its impossible unless I go up on my fees.

I can hit the shipping within a couple of dollars no matter what part of the world your in because I have shipped SO many machines!! I personally do not mind paying the shipping, but its those folks that sell low and charge astronomical shipping rates to make up for the difference that I can not stand. You know the "Buy it Now" for .99 and pay $50 shipping and handling. :roll:

But if you ship enough and know about the approximate weight of things then you can hit it pretty close to actual shipping cost.

Billy

a. Do lower free shipping limits entice you to buy more, or less?

It depends on the value I'm getting on the merchandise. If I'm getting a really good deal, I'll load up my shopping cart.

b. Is predictability of shipping costs in your ordering important to you, or would you rather be surprised when your shipping cost is lower than quoted?

I want to know the shipping charge upfront if it's a company I've never bought from before. If it's a company I'm familiar with, and trust to be fair, I'm okay with not knowing the exact shipping charge ahead of time.

c. Do you walk away from an order if shipping costs are quoted too high, or do you take the time to check the store's shipping policy?

Yes to both.

d. Does having a lower free shipping limit compensate you for paying too much for shipping on smaller orders?

It really just depends on the total for the order. All other things being equal, I'll buy from the company who can get the items to my door for the lowest total cost, regardless of how the cost is broken down.

I love shopping for deals! It's fun to see just how inexpensively stuff can be bought. :thumbup:

I will totally avoid buying anything that I think the shipping is too high for. And I will not buy anything if I don't know ahead of time how much the shipping will be.
Judy

We've been using weight/distance based shipping because it's totally fair to all of our customers. If we're shipping just a few items, we are always accurate with our shipping quotes. The problem is never with shipping one item or two items, that's totally predictable. It's when a customer orders 6 or 8 or more different items that the shipping quotes get out of line, because you have to account for packaging weights, which are additive when estimating but not when actually shipping, whether the customer buys one or 10 items.

It's a little complicated, but basically what happens is that people get over-quoted for shipping and walk away, even though their actual charges are going to be lower. A lot of stores address this by rolling the packaging weight into a handling charge, but a lot of customers don't like handling charges.

So, we're considering going to flat-rate shipping and lowering our free shipping limits, to compete with Amazon, who does this. (Fabric.com is owned by Amazon). Thus all the questions.

I really appreciate all the responses so far, keep them coming! :thumbup:

a. Do lower free shipping limits entice you to buy more, or less?

If I am close, a free shipping limit MIGHT entice me to buy a few dollars more. I'd say Amazon gets me there pretty often! Regarding heavy items, I would understand that above a certain weight, free shipping could not apply.

b. Is predictability of shipping costs in your ordering important to you, or would you rather be surprised when your shipping cost is lower than quoted?

I like predictability. I frequent online shops that I know what to expect shipping-wise when short on shopping time, if all other factors are equal.

c. Do you walk away from an order if shipping costs are quoted too high, or do you take the time to check the store's shipping policy?

I probably would look elsewhere.

d. Does having a lower free shipping limit compensate you for paying too much for shipping on smaller orders?

I think so...I've never actually thought about it! But the idea of a shop with a reasonable flat-rate shipping cost and a lower free shipping limit is appealing.

Ditto, plus I will buy more to make the minimum, (as the seller wants.)

Oh...some tough questions. Shipping costs are important to me and I want to know exactly what it is going to cost me upfront. If I think its too high and I really really must have the "whatever"...I might email to negotiate shipping if the policy is a flat rate. If its just a quoted shipping and handling cost and I think it is too high...I don't waste time..I just walk away.

I like sites that offer free shipping (at a specific $ amount- they always get me there).

I always decide if it would cost me that much to drive to get it, if its cheaper to ship..I'll buy it on line.

My two cents here. The companies that offer free shipping exclude us here in AK. If they use flat rate boxes at USPS the price is the same as continguous USA. Connecting Threads will not ship free to AK no matter the size of the order. Does it stop me from shopping with them--NO! Because the deals I can get--I just placed a large order of batting that was on sale. 4 of us ordered together and we split the shipping so we do well that way. I am used to paying for shipping most places.

Shipping or the cost of gasoline to drive some place to get it without shipping costs--works out the same unless I am going to drive there for something else. Those are considerations but looking at where I live, I ship and pay the price. Hope this helps you all.

I find it hilarious that consumers compare shipping costs to the cost of the item they're buying. What does one have to do with the other? They won't buy a $5 item because it costs $4.95 to ship. So if you buy a thousand dollar ring you should pay a thousand dollars to get it shipped to you? Think about it. Or more importantly, go to the www.usps.com site and see what postage costs these days. Education is a wonderful cure for ignorance. Believe me, most of these joints are NOT cheating you.

I will order more if I get free shipping. If the company gives free shipping with $50, that's what I'll order.

On the other hand, I will walk away from an order if the shipping price is too high, even if the order is full of "bargains".

I will also "wait" for a long time until I accumulate enough "wants" to make the $50 limit.

Whenever I buy on Ebay I only buy with free shipping, even if I pay higher for the object.

This is how I feel too.

If only free shipping was free for the seller I'd be rich! :roll:

I understand the convenience of using the Priority packaging and boxes. They are free from the PO. And if it fits it ships. But it is not good for the consumer on small/light weight items.

Ain't that the truth! :mrgreen:

I've wondered about that as well. We're based in Nevada, and shipping to Alaska or Hawaii from here costs exactly the same as shipping to the east coast, like Florida or NY, no matter the size of the order. So does shipping to any other USA location, like Guam, the US VI, American Samoa, APO/FPO (military), etc. I always look at other sites and wonder why they are charging people in these places extra ??????????

Probably because they can get away with it...

Hubby's company ships to customers via United Parcel Service, he has a book that tells him how much to charge to different areas of the country, Ground, Next Day Air, 3rd Day air, etc. Always an additional charge for residentual. He adds it all up and tells customer how much it will cost. He mostly sells to a certain sector of the industrial world. Only in U.S., he sells stuff most people would never use and more quantity than most would ever use, outside of the industry. If he buys from another company and they ship to him and he delivers it, he passes the freight charge onto the customer, exact amount, doesn't add anything to it.
He has always said "You can't make money on freight", and he lives by it. If handling is part of it, that is how people make money on it. You usually then pay for the person to package it and get it ready to ship.
That is how it works, if the company or person isn't trying to gouge people.
Companies and people we quilters would buy from, wouldn't usually live by those standards.

I fell short on a fabric & found it at Bug Fabric.com for $9.25 . I needed 1 yd. Their shipping cost is $6.75. I emailed them to negotiate shipping. That didn't work, no negotiating shipping at Bug Fabric.com. I cant see paying $16 for 1 yd of fabric. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

We only ship USPS, since UPS is so expensive for our customers. Not only does UPS and Fedex charge a premium for residential delivery, they charge an additional premium for picking up orders from us, since we are in a residential area. Double whammy. All in all, we've found USPS to be the best deal all round for shipping in cost, service, etc.

BTW, since we are a home-based business in a residential area, we also get charged about 15 to 20 cents more, per yard, for shipping our bolts to us, since our suppliers all ship UPS or Fedex. :shock:

Our local B&M quilt stores pay from 25 to 30 cents/yd for shipping in, we pay from 40 to 50 cents/yd for shipping in.

A lot of what Hubby's company sells would not be practical to lug to the post office and they would not handle it anyway. I think we are talking apples and oranges, like I said before, he sells to industrial shops, not to the general public, they would not, for the most part know what the stuff was or what to do with it. Residentual rate for UPS is $1.50 more. Hubby has a business and warehouse in a business area. Yes, they do charge a weekly pick up charge and believe me it is worth it.

Everyone hates high shipping, but the people at UPS and USPS need their jobs too!
I try to ship the cheapest way and some still don't like the amts but if I offered free shipping even on larger orders I would have to increase the cost of my products.
As does every business! so you are paying the shipping no matter what!

Does that help?

>>So, we're considering going to flat-rate shipping and lowering our free shipping limits, to compete with Amazon, who does this. (Fabric.com is owned by Amazon).

This would appeal to me!

If your doing this from a website just incorporate a Shipping calculator from USPS on it. That way they can see what the actual shipping will be. You will have to set up the perimeters of the shipping information but it will hold accurate to their zip code. If you know that a yard of fabric weighs in at 8 oz. and you already know roughly the size boxes you use then your golden.

When I ran my graphics business online I had a shipping calculator and it was always within pennies of the actual shipping cost.

Billy

Thanks for the advice, but I've been running an online cart for four years and have shipped many thousands of orders, so I'm not exactly new at the game. I also do all my own cart modifications and programming, so I do know my way around the USPS shipping API's.

Our cart incorporates the USPS shipping calculators, and they are, as you stated, accurate, but that's provided one of two conditions exist; you're either only shipping one or two items at a time, or you're charging a handling charge that takes care of all your additional packaging and paperwork weights.

Let me give you an example: We know exactly what our fabrics weigh; batiks weigh less, heavy fabrics more, and we put those weights into our product records, then they go into the shipping calculator at sale time. We also know what our packaging materials weigh, so we need to add that to our product weights, since our customers prefer we don't add handling charges.

So, let's say one yard of fabric weighs 8 ounces, and the packaging material for that weighs 3 ounces (you have to pay to ship the envelope, paperwork, internal packaging, etc too.)

So, you set your weight at 11 ounces for a yard. Now, someone orders two yards. You give the estimator the total weight, now 22 ounces, when actually you only have one set of shipping materials, so you're off by 3 ounces. Now multiply that by 10, for ten different one-yard cuts ordered. Now your shipping estimate is off by 30 ounces from actual weight (probably about 24 ounces because you have heavier packaging) and your USPS shipping estimator has overestimated shipping costs by several dollars or more, depending on destination.

See the problem? No way around it, because you still need to estimate packaging accurately for small orders. So you're not exactly "golden."

We have customers that order lots of small amounts of different items, for instance, 20 half-yard cuts. Their actual shipping cost can be many dollars below the estimate, particularly on international orders where the estimate can exceed the 4 pound limit for International First Class parcel, where the actual weight does not.

Our regular customers know how our system works, and that we adjust the charges down to actual when we ship. But a first-time customer doesn't, and often abandons her cart during checkout when the shipping charges are overestimated.

If you can come up with a solution to this problem that doesn't involve a separate package-weight charge (i.e. a handling charge) the entire online selling world, at least the people who sell multiple items shipped together, wants to know about it.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking seriously about going to flat rate shipping, at least for USA orders...

I normally shop the free shipping stores($35.00 & $50.00 ) I do order from other stores too but only if I think it is reasonable shipping. I have deleted orders many times over the years, at stores that take advantage of shipping costs.( Like add to the actual shipping cost ) Gougers like that don't get my business.

Me, too. I will, and have many times, walked away from an order when I find out the shipping. I simply will not pay higher shipping costs - and I don't have too. There are too many sites with free/small/reasonable shipping, and if I can't find what I want - then I wait.

Also, if I'm not careful, the shipping adding onto the order makes the total price higher than if I run up to the fabric store myself!

I check first if the company ships to Australia - I have gotten really excited, spent hours working out an order, then URK! they don't ship to here. I accept that if I am buying fabric from the US, I will pay for shipping, but I will save a lot of money, when we pay AUD$20 - $30 per metre for fabric. I do but from Book Depository, as they ship for free, and their customer service is amazing.
Cheers
Rain

I refuse to buy from places that do that. It makes me feel like they could charge my credit card no matter what. And they're trying to be sneaky and make the customer commit...as in, "Well I'm already THIS far..."

I like free shipping deals, even though I know it's not really free. With Fabric.com, the $35 = free shipping is the perfect price point. $50 is kinda a deal breaker, even though I've been known to drop that much in one shopping trip. I laugh at shops that say $75 or $100 = free shipping.

I also like the ones that do flat rate up to so many yards. I usually max out the flat-rate on that, but that could also max out how big of an order you get. Like $5 flat rate shipping for up to 10 yards, for example. I'd get the 10 yards, but if I normally will buy up to 13 yards, I'd probably not get the extra 3 yards because it would result in an extra $5-6 in shipping, kwim?

i love to shop at the shops which offer free shipping after $35 i can always find at least that much to spend. if the shipping is flat rate i've been known to just delete the cart, especially if i'm ordering a book and the shipping shows up at some crazy price like $5.95...when i know it's going to cost them much less. if the shop does not offer any reduced shipping costs or free after $100 i really have to want/need an item and am not able to find it anywhere else.
i always do the math too...so if i'm ordering 2 yards of fabric for say $7.95 and the shipping for it is $6.95...that puts the fabric over $11 a yard...nope, i will look elsewhere.

With the rates going up. I just made 2 purchases online and in one I paid more shipping then I did the item. The other, the cost for shipping was about the same cost as the item.
I will go with either free shipping or flat rate

I have lots of local options for shopping so I don't usually order anything online unless shipping is FREE or super low!

I take advantage of the free shipping most of the time but if I need a small item I consider what it would cost me to drive to the nearest large town to get it and usually shipping is less.