More discusion about copyright issues
04-16-2012, 12:00 PM
#81
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S. W. Indiana
Posts: 7,484
If one were to read and understand the government copyright website (and I have read it...), one would come to know that utilitarian items such as quilts and clothing are not eligible for copyright protection. They are not considered by our governing bodies to be works of art, so comparing the two is moot. This is not to imply that we, as quilters should not love and cherish our own quilts as artistic...it just means the government sees them as simple utilitarian items.
"Designs" as mentioned in the government copyright website only apply to the designs of ship hulls. The fashion and clothing/accessory industries lobbied to get their items covered under copyright protection, and it was the opinion of the Supreme court that allowing fashion designers protection under the law was not feasible. This is why it's commonplace to be able to buy a knock-off red carpet dress the day after it's seen on television.
Here is the issue I challenged during the last great copyright debate, and it still stands:
"And if you can find citation of a court case where someone was actually held accountable for selling an item made from a pattern that they bought, I will eat this laptop, piece by piece."
"Designs" as mentioned in the government copyright website only apply to the designs of ship hulls. The fashion and clothing/accessory industries lobbied to get their items covered under copyright protection, and it was the opinion of the Supreme court that allowing fashion designers protection under the law was not feasible. This is why it's commonplace to be able to buy a knock-off red carpet dress the day after it's seen on television.
Here is the issue I challenged during the last great copyright debate, and it still stands:
"And if you can find citation of a court case where someone was actually held accountable for selling an item made from a pattern that they bought, I will eat this laptop, piece by piece."
04-16-2012, 12:03 PM
#82
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,625
Unfortunately, the fighting paints a broad brush over all pattern designers. It's really only a few pattern designers with their knickers in a wad. Don't give up on pattern designers, even those with the problem restrictions. Those few will begin to see the light eventually... and get the ironing board out to iron the wrinkles in their knickers. We should learn to forgive and pay it forward! Who knows, I may be the person who needs the ironing board the next time. LOL
04-16-2012, 01:22 PM
#83
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Beautiful Northwest Washington
Posts: 19
@ JMCDA and Lori S: thanks for the feedback! Also, I have to say 'thanks!' to everyone else commenting on this thread; I appreciate reading everyone's feedback, because it definitely helps me to wade through this whole copyright issue 
04-16-2012, 02:03 PM
#84
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,625
To JMCDA.....
I recognize you are an award winning published artist. Congratulations! (with an ego running amok, but that's my opinion.) You were right on the money with most of your copyright advice. But where you steered wrong was in your last 4 paragraphs. (shown after the snip, below)
You are bullying the person buying your pattern by telling them your copyright requires them to ask for permission to earn income off of something they made using your pattern. You are placing an illegal requirement on the buyer, and this is not allowed according to a law called the First Use Doctrine. The copyright does NOT extend to the item made using the copyrighted pattern.
Telling someone to get this permission in writing is like putting an agreement in writing between gang members and a local deli... "We'll let you sell sandwiches but you're going to pay us $300 weekly "insurance" to keep us from mugging your customers." How stupid are the local criminals to put this in writing???
PLEASE CONTACT ME if anyone reading this has an actual WRITTEN permission slip from a quilt pattern designer extending their copyright & giving you permission to sell the finished items you created using that designers pattern. It would be useful in a lawsuit to get these ego driven ladies to deflate their ego long enough to read ALL the laws that protect consumers, not just the ones that pertain to them.
I recognize you are an award winning published artist. Congratulations! (with an ego running amok, but that's my opinion.) You were right on the money with most of your copyright advice. But where you steered wrong was in your last 4 paragraphs. (shown after the snip, below)
You are bullying the person buying your pattern by telling them your copyright requires them to ask for permission to earn income off of something they made using your pattern. You are placing an illegal requirement on the buyer, and this is not allowed according to a law called the First Use Doctrine. The copyright does NOT extend to the item made using the copyrighted pattern.
Telling someone to get this permission in writing is like putting an agreement in writing between gang members and a local deli... "We'll let you sell sandwiches but you're going to pay us $300 weekly "insurance" to keep us from mugging your customers." How stupid are the local criminals to put this in writing???
PLEASE CONTACT ME if anyone reading this has an actual WRITTEN permission slip from a quilt pattern designer extending their copyright & giving you permission to sell the finished items you created using that designers pattern. It would be useful in a lawsuit to get these ego driven ladies to deflate their ego long enough to read ALL the laws that protect consumers, not just the ones that pertain to them.
I draw on a career of almost 30 yrs as an artist and art teacher. I am an award winning published fine artist by profession who also teaches and sells design packets to the Decorative art industry. .... [snip]
If the copyright holder wishes to give permission to someone else to derive income from their pattern then they may do so if they wish - but you have to get specific permission outlining your intentions in writing for it to be valid...and to protect yourself!
The eventual selling the "one off" copy that you made from the pattern that you purchased is not the same as selling items from a pattern that you purchased for the intention of using to make items to sell - the intention or motivation for the intitial purchase is totally different.
In your experience, the copyright holder decided that you would be allowed to derive income from her pattern by selling items on Etsy...
...the next time you contact a designer - and please do so in writing not verbally for your own protection as a phone call is just a phone call- she may say no and you must respect her wishes, no way around it.
if in doubt always ask for permission! Ignorance is not the best defence in any situation. Creative people deserve every chance they can find to create income from their creativity - otherwise they may have to give it up and get a real job...and then there won't be any pretty patterns for anyone to enjoy.
If the copyright holder wishes to give permission to someone else to derive income from their pattern then they may do so if they wish - but you have to get specific permission outlining your intentions in writing for it to be valid...and to protect yourself!
The eventual selling the "one off" copy that you made from the pattern that you purchased is not the same as selling items from a pattern that you purchased for the intention of using to make items to sell - the intention or motivation for the intitial purchase is totally different.
In your experience, the copyright holder decided that you would be allowed to derive income from her pattern by selling items on Etsy...
...the next time you contact a designer - and please do so in writing not verbally for your own protection as a phone call is just a phone call- she may say no and you must respect her wishes, no way around it.
if in doubt always ask for permission! Ignorance is not the best defence in any situation. Creative people deserve every chance they can find to create income from their creativity - otherwise they may have to give it up and get a real job...and then there won't be any pretty patterns for anyone to enjoy.
Last edited by Christine-; 04-16-2012 at 02:12 PM.
04-16-2012, 02:22 PM
#85
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,625
[snip]
>>> My daughter gifted me a couple of quilting books this past Christmas and I went and looked at what the copyright statement in both of them said which was "items made from these patterns are intended for personal, non-commerical use"
JMCDA replied: seems pretty clear to me...personal use is intending to use the pattern for your own personal use and enjoyment. Commercial use is intending to use the patterns and instructions for the purpose of making money.
>>> My daughter gifted me a couple of quilting books this past Christmas and I went and looked at what the copyright statement in both of them said which was "items made from these patterns are intended for personal, non-commerical use"
JMCDA replied: seems pretty clear to me...personal use is intending to use the pattern for your own personal use and enjoyment. Commercial use is intending to use the patterns and instructions for the purpose of making money.
The restriction you found in the book, is it trying to claim their 'copyright' restricts you from selling items the buyer made using their book? If so... the copyright restriction is hogwash and should be ignored.
04-16-2012, 03:19 PM
#86
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delmarva Peninsula
Posts: 1,151
I read this and the finished product of a purchased pattern is not restricted by copyright (why include a pattern and instructions unless you are enticing someone to make it). Only the pattern, or language cannot be copied. The finished product and what you do with the finished product is not something that is governed.
04-17-2012, 05:57 PM
#87
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Independence, MO
Posts: 3,560
Food for thought from Leah Day at the Free Motion Quilting Project entitled Copyright Terrorism:
http://freemotionquilting.blogspot.c...terrorism.html
http://freemotionquilting.blogspot.c...terrorism.html
04-17-2012, 07:06 PM
#88
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,625
Leah Day's website is faaaabulous. She is one smart lady. Thank you for sharing her link!
Originally Posted by Chay 
Food for thought from Leah Day at the Free Motion Quilting Project entitled Copyright Terrorism:
http://freemotionquilting.blogspot.c...terrorism.html
Originally Posted by Chay Food for thought from Leah Day at the Free Motion Quilting Project entitled Copyright Terrorism:
http://freemotionquilting.blogspot.c...terrorism.html
04-17-2012, 09:26 PM
#90
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 10,357
My understanding is that the words and directions are copyrighted but you may sell things made using a pattern as long as you aren't mass producing. How would these designers make any money if we didn't buy their patterns. When I rang the copyright office here in Australia I was told if I had paid for the pattern I had also paid for limited license as well. As others have said if the don't want us using them don't sell them in the public domain.
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10-25-2012 02:56 PM
