100 wt. thread causing thread throw-ups on my quilt
 

Hey all,
I've been using Wonderfil Invisifil 100 wt. thread for FMQ stitch in the ditch on my Brother PQ1500. When I use the small spools, it does fine and I've used it in both the bobbin and top thread that way with no problem. But if I use the cones I periodically get some thread throw-ups and snarls around my needle. In addition, it's giving me fits in terms of tension because it will suddenly wrap itself around the take up lever or even the bottom of the needle (both of which function to increase the top tension) and then I start getting bobbin thread pokies. Since I've been FMQing for many years, and it only happens when I'm using this thread, I'm pretty sure all of this is a result of the thread sometimes coming off the cone at an uneven rate. I have been putting aurifil 50 wt. cotton in the bobbin because I can't get my machine to consistently form stitches when I use the 100 wt in both the top and bobbin.

To end the thread throw up problem, So far I have tried:

increasing top tension-- no good, caused bobbin thread to show up on surface

running thread through the three hole pre-tensioner backwards-- helped some, but didn't eliminate the problem

Using a thread net-- caused tension problems that I could not resolve as the thread is so fine it was catching on the netting at times--

Taking the cone off my machine's holder and putting it on an auxiliary holder behind my machine, helped some, but still had the problem.

Moving auxiliary holder to table that is lower than my machine and off to the right so thread runs up through hole of auxiliary holder and through extension arm of auxiliary holder and then through extension arm of my machine before entering the three hold pre-tensioner. This was a big improvement, and I was able to get the ditching finished, but still had to do lots of unsewing due to throw ups and I've got more quilts to do that need ditching....

A while back someone mentioned something to do with using either a cotton ball or a styrofoam peanut to run the thread through to help even out the tension----- where do you put it??????


Any info would be much appreciated since I really love this thread when it is behaving.

Thanks,
Rob

Is thread horizontal or vertical are you using a stand

Someone suggested to me having the thread higher than the machine - just offering it up to you as something to try.

What is the quality of your thread net? I found that the ones I bought from Superior Threads are much finer than the ones I bought off Amazon. The fine nets work better. You may need to cut the net to fit the cone, and you may need to glue or tape the net to the bottom of the cone so that the net does not slide out of place while sewing.

If your thread holder has a wire circle that you run the thread through, you can try this. Take a piece of batting (I used Warm and Natural) about one inch square, fold it in half, run your thread through the fold, and place the batting inside the metal circle on your thread holder. On my frame machine, this batting stays in place by itself. With your setup, you may need to experiment with batting type, batting size, or even glueing or taping the batting in place to keep it there. This is probably very similar to what you have read about using a cotton ball or plastic peanut. In those cases, I would run the thread through and place the cotton ball or peanut right before the circle opening in the thread holder. You could use a square of batting in the same fashion, I think. Basically the wire circle keeps the batting/ball/peanut in place while the thread feeds through it. The purpose of this is to keep even tension on the thread as it feeds, before it ever gets to the machine.

I like Superior's thread holder:
http://www.superiorthreads.com/shop/...thread-holder/

What size needle are you using?

"Thread throw-ups"... lol that's a new one to me. Is this the same thing as a thread nest? Where is it happening, top or bottom of fabric?

I also have a Brother PQ1500. Here is where my bit of fluff is located. It's the very first spot your thread goes through after it comes off the cone or spool. I usually have it squished down onto the thread; I lifted it up for the photo.

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I read recently to cut of a piece from nylon stocking "as in panty hose" if you can find any.

I refer to mine as 'thread snot' HA! I had to go down a needle size. I was using an 18 and went to a 16. I also started using a new bobbin winder...my shredding has almost disappeared. Wish I had known that a LONG time ago.

I was going to suggest this too. when I use a cone in my DSM, I have a mug that is large enough to hold the cone loosely and can be set directly behind the first thread guide. The mug seems to do a better job holding cone steady but loose enough to spin,

I've just finished a quilt using Invisafil 100 wt in the needle and in the bobbin. I quilt on a Juki TL2010Q, which I believe is very similar to rryder's PQ1500.

My cone, in a net holder from Superior Threads, was mounted on the vertical holder on top of the machine. I guided the thread into the middle hole of the "three-hole" guide, then threaded the usual way. I lowered top tension A LOT (almost to zero I would think). I tightened bobbin tension about 1/8 of a turn. I used a size 16 topstitch needle.

The above is the end result of a lot of trial and error scenarios. Success with the size 16 needle was a surprise. I had assumed that such fine thread would work better with a smaller needle. I had started out with my usual size 14 topstitch, so I changed to a size 12. The result was even more frequent thread fraying and breaking.

Once I got the right set-up, I did the whole quilt with not one thread fray or break.

Keep us posted, rryder.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Peckish-- it's mainly on the top and when it happens I can see that the thread has either: 1-wound itself around the takeup lever, 2-wound itself around the needle, 3- wound itself around itself between the cone and the three hole pre tension bar or all 3 at once. I'm pretty sure that placing a piece of fluff to work as a pre-pre-tensioner is the solution.

Patricia- yep, tried both a 90/14 and 100/16 topstitch needle, my upper tension is very loose, and in addition to tightening bobbin tension I went to 50wt aurifil cotton in the bobbin. These all helped some. I did try only using one guide hole, but that made the problem much worse whereas using all three and running the thread through the three holes backwards helped quite a bit-- that's why I'm thinking that the bit of fluff in the very first guide off the spool may add just that little bit of extra pretensioning it needs to behave.

Rob

I am new to 100wt. thread, too, and had this problem only when I realized I forgot to change out my piecing needle (75/11) for the Microtex 70/10 needle I bought specifically for 100 wt. microquilter thread. As soon as I put in the microtex needle, I started having occasional thread nests that required cutting out and restarting. I didn't have that happen once with the piecing needle. The solution for me was to wind the top thread a second time around the little button you have to go partway around early in the top threading. Now instead of going around the button partway, the thread goes around a full turn and partway. No more thread nests underneath. Good luck to you. I hope you find something that works for you.

If it works from the small spools, and after you' ve tried everthing possible to remedy the problem, perhaps just give up on the cone ,and wind some on a spare bobbin ,use that instead. Or , just buy the small ones from now on, and use the cone just to wind bobbins...probably a lifetime supply,lol.

Needles have been mentioned ... keep in mind that the smaller the thread the smaller the needle.

I have done miles of microstippling with 100wt invisafil (bobbin and on top) using embroidery 12 needles.
I guess I have been lucky ... and no problems ... other than the operator created! :)



Stitch678 ... If winding by hand, it is hard to get a consistent tension on the spool or bobbin. It may work for shorter stints of straight quilting or stitching, but would probably create problems with FMQing. Likewise, winding from a cone down to a small spool defeats the ability to keep on quilting. We have to change bobbins all too soon, as it is. But it it works for you, then go for it!

I always thought that the smaller the thread the smaller the needle. But this last project really turned that idea on its head LOL. The size 12 was hopeless with the Invisafil ... but the size 16 worked! If that's what my Juki wants, that's what she'll get.

I've always had good luck with this on Bernina. Of course, I did use a smaller embroidery/top stitch/metallica needle. Unversal needles IMO are useless for a lot of applications. I never buy them. I use Microtex for piecing and general sewing and the embroidery/top stitch/metallica needle for quilting.

I have a different thread problem. I bought a set of 3 Aurifil spools. Two were fine, but the third one was tangled at the top and I can't find the leading thread anywhere. Every loose thread I find ends up coming from inside a few layers. I don't remember where I bought it. Probably Superior Threads. Any suggestions?

I highly doubt you purchased Auriful thread from Superior; they are competitors. Superior sells only Superior brand threads.

Since you can't remember where you purchased it, I think you're stuck with it. I'd keep trying to untangle it.