An Artist's Rights
 

Kudos to the article on copyright law. As Patrice said, "...it's not as bad as it seems." Having worked as a paralegal I know how very important wording can be, believe me when you are working on the 27th re-write of a brief you understand.

Just my opinion, but I am in favor of respecting the rights of the artist that created the pattern. He/she designed the pattern, no doubt based on centuries of previous designs; however, it was their creativity that led to the publication of the pattern I purchased. It is then my right to make that quilt and give it to a friend or family member. I could tell them that it was just an idea I came up with, which is an outright lie. If I make the quilt and then attempt to sell it with the same explanation I am infringing on the rights of the designer of the pattern, same as lying to my friend or family member.

There are so many sources for patterns available to us, so many are free while others are available at reasonable prices. I will not copy a pattern I purchased to give to anyone who asks. The pattern is out there for purchase or download.

If you make a quilt and give it to a friend and then he/she gives it to a friend and claims that he/she made it would that hurt you? I have my favorites, as do we all; I've spent way more than I should on patterns and I love each and every one of them. Why do I spend money on a particular designer's patterns? They are gifted in an area in which I am not and I respect that gift.

It is an old saying, but "Do the right thing."

Now I'm getting confused. If I buy a book that has a photo of a fussy cut Churn Dash, and I make a fussy cut Churn Dash with different fabrics than in the book, am I violating copyrights?

I think it speaks well of the members of this board that so many have participated in this discussion. I am also impressed at the qualifications of the contributing members. After reading every post, I still have many questions, so I hope the discussion continues.

It can get quite ridiculous... How many published patterns have we seen that are nothing more than traditional blocks given new names? Sorry... I don't respect that as someone's "original". Copyright is the right of "copy"... copy meaning the actual written words. No one has the right to take your writing, the way you explained the making of the pattern. However, making a "knock off" of the original design from pictures is fair game. It's the reason so much of the fashion world is 'knocked off'. The law does not prohibit it. Books, written patterns, song lyrics... all that "copy" is protected. Actual designs, not so much. However, an ethical person would give some sort of credit to who or what ever inspired their creation.

I am a knitting pattern designer. How I wish my actual designs were protected from being copied. However, it is only my written words-- the way I explained the instruction-- that is protected under copyright law. And even that is only enforceable if you have the money and legal representation to sue those infringing on your rights.

Where is this discussion taking place? This is the first thread I have seen any kind of discussion on copyright, since PatriceJ immediately locked what she posted about copyright. It appeared discussion on the topic wasn't welcome.

Copyright discussions come up periodically here on the board.....the article Patrice posted was interesting, confusing and made my brain hurt......the implications were broad......I am still and will probably always be confused.......if I buy a quilt mag, like a pattern well enough to make it...even to buying the identical fabs, make it and decide to enter in our little county fair....wins first place ribbon.....I get a check for a big $10.00---- so I should share that $$$ with designer..who gets the ribbon or is it shared custody? Or should I make them and hide them under a bed......

You received the ribbon for the entirety of the work, not the design. Personally I don't understand people who copy stuff verbatim out of the book. You've made yourself into a robot. Not even my first quilt (see feet) yellow brick road was made verbatim from the pattern. Perhaps I am just bored too quickly. As a world famous block designer (well, one block) I don't care if you make a zillion dollars off it, just give Tim's Compass Star it's due. Funny story there... I ran across a guild on the net a couple years ago that used that design for it's block competition. Properly attributed to my internet pen name "k_jupiter". Pretty funny. tim in san jose

Whether what you call a 'knock off' is copyright infringement or not depends partly on what form the original took. Under US copyright law, the design aspect of 'functional' items such as clothing and quilts is difficult, if not impossible, to copyright. The written pattern, yes, as you said, along with any original photos, drawings or art work included. A significant exception is art quilts. They are not considered functional for copyright purposes so their design aspect is more easily protected.

Readers should be made aware that the Bissett article that was posted is talking about Canadian Copyright Law and it was written by a Canadian designer, someone who has a very personal financial interest in what you are told about copyrights. There are notable differences between the Canadian and US laws, the non-covered design aspect of functional items being just one. Another is that, in the US, you do need to have your copyright registered in order to bring suit for infringement, and it needs to be registered before the infringement occurs.

The Bissett article was the first time I have ever seen mention of sharing prize money with the designer if your commercial pattern quilt entry wins at a show. I've been copyright savvy for a long time and that struck me as pretty presumptuous, even for a designer. Most major shows now ask for the pattern name and designer on the entry form if you used a commercial pattern and some require the designer's written permission (though many designers themselves are calling this requirement unreasonable and unnecessary), but the show folks make no mention at all of having to share any resulting prize money. And that is NOT something they would drop on you only after the fact. The designer gets their name and pattern mentioned on the shown quilt's info card which is marvelous free advertising for them. In small shows and others where designer info is not requested, it is always proper to mention it on your own in the quilt description.

Do some research. There are more and more sources of information available that address how copyright law impacts quilting in particular now that quilting is such a big business and has spawned so many small businesses.

My feelings on this are ...unless you are litigating attorney with experience in these specific matters (copyrights and quilt patterns and designs) and can reference specific court rulings that are pertaining, then what is offered is only an opinion.

http://www.bravelittlechicken.com/archives/796

The original post by QuiltnNan was very long and had a lot of legalize that is hard to understand. The above link is from a quilter who is also an attorney. After reading the information in the above link I don't think we have anything to worry about. I believe Patrice is just trying to keep everyone from getting into a stampede we don't need to get into. Basically, for the every day Jane and Joe just don't make copies of patterns you bought and sell them as your own or give them out in a guild or class.

Mahalo Ghostrider! Your explanation about American copyright is spot on from everything I've read/researched.

One point that was addressed in the original copyright thread is ownership of pictures. Pictures from someone else's site belong to them. When you copy that picture and post it here, that is a violation of their copy right. If you took the picture yourself, or a friend gives you permission, it can be posted here. If you want to show someone else's picture here, you should use a link to their site. If you save a picture that you found on the internet, it is best to save the information about where you found it. Social media 'shares' pictures through links to the original site. Pictures are not posted to Pinterest... when you pin them, they appear via link to the original site.

Pretty much from Day 1 Patrice has kept the board fairly clean with rules about sharing patterns, descriptions, etc. Where we might be treading on the slippery slope is displays of our quilts. Most often a member will quote the name of the quilt (if they remember) but nothing about who designed it when they post a picture of their work complete or whip. I like the standards being taken by the board in they are not onerous or restricting to the sharing of our work. Would it be nice if every person attributed the design to whomever inspired them? Yes but even that is extremely hard to do. Took a picture at the Pan-Pacific Show in Santa Clara. Three months later I design a quilt based on what I like about that quilt. Did I steal their design? No. Steal their pattern? No. Steal their color pallet? No. I saw a relationship in their work and I expanded upon it. And what was the artists name? Not a clue. We go to shows to be inspired by the greats, whether it's quilting, photography, sculpture, etc... Tough little line you've drawn here... tim in san jose

No, because that pattern is in the public domain, fussy cut or not.

Some other websites with quilt specific copyright info.<o:p></o:p>
http://www.saqa.com/resources.php?ID=2282
http://www.bravelittlechicken.com/quilting-and-the-law-series (this is the ‘index’ for the copyright series, one piece of which was already posted above and on the 'sticky' thread)
http://www.equilters.com/library/quilt_issues/quilt_copyright2.html
http://qgotv.org/files/Copyright_Article.pdf

I don't lose sleep over copyrights. Yawn. Just do as Betty Gee says:"Do the right thing."

still confused about this all. if you buy a book that has patterns and instructions it almost seems like you are considered a criminal the minute you decide to follow the instructions and make a block. I definitely support a person's right to say they invented an original design that would be obvious if copied and sold by others or orthers claim it is original by them. I would never do that on purpose but i also dont sell my work or even show it so maybe i am not as sensitive as others have been and would hate to be accused of stealing someones hard work. So back to the beginning -- I'm now too scared to try to use a pattern book. Maybe I'll just stick to traditional stuff on public domain

Ok.....think about this.... i have a book....1001 quilt blocks.....NO WHERE in that book does it note who "designed" each block that is depicted in that book.......so by the original message the publisher of that book should be in jail??? There is very little that is new under the sun....knowing where a block pattern originated would take a crystal ball. So if i spend 3 years making a Dear Jane - my own fabric, my own colors, my own work in every way....are you telling me I can't sell it to someone ????

That is not true. I can upload a picture to Pinterest from my computer and it will not link back to ANY website.

You missed a big part of the discussion. The copyright covers the instructions on how to make the blocks. You can't copy and distribute someone else's instructions. However, you can write up your own instructions on how to make a block.

Actually I agree with you 100% Peggi.......you cannot steal/copy/resell/plagiarize someone else's written copyrighted work...but if you read the original article in question, i think you will have to admit that the assertion being put forth is that if you make a quilt that someone else has sold a pattern for - whether you change the colors not - you MUST give credit / financial reimbursement to that person or you are violating the copyright. I disagree with this premise basis US copyright law - that was my point.

Yeah, but in the sticky, it says that if you don't reference the original creator, then you are violating copyright, even to the imitation of a quilt as saying you are violating copyright. And the original writer said that you can't sell a quilt made with her pattern (the sticky). Not even one. Wow.

It certainly doesn't work that way with clothing. I can buy a sewing pattern, make a skirt and sell it no problem. I've never even hear of Simplicity or Butterick going after someone who makes clothing for others (using their pattern) as a problem.

I agree with brave little chicken that it is implied that people will make things with patterns--and that is implied when you actually produce a pattern--that is the purpose of a pattern. And why would anyone want to make a pattern that they can't show at a guild, to their friends, etc.

Those bravelittle chicken articles are really good. IMO, much better than the sticky.

They are here:
http://www.bravelittlechicken.com/archives/798
http://www.bravelittlechicken.com/archives/796
http://www.bravelittlechicken.com/archives/902

And in one of her articles, it was interesting that she showed where in one case, one person took another to court over infringement. She showed the original quilt pattern and the one that the court deemed to violate and the one they deemed to not violate her pattern. Interesting.

VERY interesting reading. My bargello quilts were published in a small quilting book. I was surprised one day to find those pictures posted on the internet when I was looking at bargello quilts using Google photo. A quilt shop in Australia is still selling the book. I always wanted to post the pictures of my quilts from this book but never did because the line is sometimes gray to me. MY quilt but I did NOT take the photo. My name is listed as credit.

I think this is an issue when a quilter sells a quilt, especially at a craft/quilt show. I spend a lot of money on my quilts, but ONLY give them to my family. This is a hot topic no matter the craft.

I like reading about this topic and everyones opinion, don't understand all the locked threads.

I bought EQ7 so I could make a show quilt, (it won't win anyway) and be able to say it is all mine. The more they push the copyright the more everyone will make their own design or use base blocks.

Ok I learned several things from the post but admit I'm still fuzzy on other parts. Ill keep reading it to see if any lightbulbs go on.

Ok I learned several things from the post but admit I'm still fuzzy on other parts. Ill keep reading it to see if any lightbulbs go on. Does that mean my profile picture is in violation? Like most i don't want to infringement on anyone.

once a thread shifts from facts and reliable resources to opinion, i will most likely lock it.
all the hysteria, anger, misinformation, pointless argument, and confusion generated by opinion, etc render a potentially useful and informative thread useless.

once that happens i will either lock it or delete altogether.

personally, i take the lazy way out.

i won't make a quilt to sell that i made using somebody else's pattern.
i won't enter a quilt into a competition that i made using somebody else's pattern.
the same goes for anybody else's quilt i saw that is [or at least seems to be] truly unique and original.

if i ever have enough confidence in the quality of my work to enter something in a show, i will check the rules carefully. if something is unclear to me, i will contact the show coordinators for clarification. if i don't like the rules i won't enter the show.

i won't buy any book or pattern that is sealed in such a way that i can't first read the copyright notice and attempt at restrictions. whether or not i agree with what's written, if i don't like what i see i won't buy it.

i will not wrap myself around an axle worrying about whether or not i like the law.
i will do my best to obey the law as i understand it.
i will continue to look for and read reliable articles from competent sources until i am sure i understand all the finer points of copyright law as it applies to quilting and my country. (laws are not the same the world 'round.)

Gee, I thought this site was about sharing, getting others opinions on things and general discussion. A lot of people are thankful for the help they have received from this site. If you get 10 legal attorneys there will be 10 different interpretations of the copyright law. There are numerous interpretations of the "legal" who is right. Give it up. Do what you feel is appropriate.

All I can say is, thank goodness quilting has been around for 200 years before everyone got their knickers in a twist about "MY pattern", "MY design" etc. There are hundreds (even 1001!) patterns in the public domain that we can use, given to us by our very generous grandmothers and great-grandmothers, who loved to share patterns like real neighbors.

I will stick to those and don't need any copyrighted books to get ideas from, then I don't have to worry.

The line between public domain - whatever that is - and copyrighted material is where I am confused.

The Jane A. Stickle quilt popularized in the Dear Jane book is an example that I find very puzzling.

The Dear Jane author did not make that quilt - but seems to be profiting from another' s work. Is it because the maker has been dead a long time?

Question: Did the original article regarding copyright law reflect the laws in the US or Canada?

I tried to find a spot to ask that question but ran into locked threads. Thank you for opening another AND unlocked thread.

Pat

Canada. There are both similarities and differences between the copyright laws of the US and those of Canada, but the article was about Canadian law written by a Canadian designer.

the original article was primarily about canadian law.
the only reason i took that thread down was that we accidentally created more confusion than anything else.

this thread will stay open so long as we focus on trying to help each other with facts.

most of the law is very easy to understand and follow.
the two things that are most confusing - and for which straight answers are proving virtually impossible to find - are

1) whether we violate copyright law if we display something we made using a legally obtained copyright protected pattern. by "display" i mean entering in shows/exhibits, sharing photos of the things we made, and similar situations.
2) whether we can sell at least one thing (quilts, in our case) made using a legally obtained copyright protected pattern.

most of the reliable sources i've checked so far regard the resulting quilt as a copy of the pattern. keeping the quilt or giving it as a gift are generally "rated" as fair personal use. things get bogged down in gobbledygook when it comes to sale or/and display.

an answer i can understand is out there somewhere.
whether or not i will find it in this lifetime is yet another question. LOL

this copy right to me makes no sense except I would never photo copy a pattern and sell it I have been quilting since the late70's ad have hundreds of books and have hundreds of books and magazines and amazes me how many of these new patterns are spin offs and copy righted one that comes to me is TWISTER it originally came out under the name SQUARE DANCE I took the class that book had the pattern to make the pattern with template plastic new book comes with plastic templates for 3 times the price so as I say the only illegal thing I say I would not do is copy the pattern and sell it once purchased I consider it mine I paid for it and no different than buying apron or blouse patter

Beyond the brain ache I currently have. Unless it is something extremely special ( an Amy Bradley Babies quilt I'm making for a special Downs child in the family), if it says in any way, shape or form, copyright. I will not use it. Period. There are too many options now a days on the internet!!

"brain ache" does not begin to cover it. LOL

reminds me of the octopus ride at a carnival. LOL

But if we all stop buying copyrighted patterns, then the very instrument designed to protect the rights of the original designer is also the reason he/she will lose potential profit - wow, if that is not a catch-22 LOL

here are links to two fact sheets at the United States Copyright website.

the first addresses Fair Use.
http://copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
i am not going to quote any part of it here because i really, really hope you will all go to read the whole thing.

the second addresses the subject of "useful articles."
http://copyright.gov/fls/fl103.pdf

the question of whether or not a quilt is properly categorized as a useful article [under US Copyright law] is pivotal.
if quilts are "useful items", things go off in one direction; if not, the path goes elsewhere.

the only other cloud [for me] is whether or not a quilt made from a pattern is a copy of that pattern.

i will resist the temptation to share my own opinion about these things because i really want this thread to remain focused on fact and helping each other track down reliable information from credible sources. i might break out in hives from the strain, but ... lip zipped. LOL