Another topic (The price of squash) made me think about something else. I don't check my receipts from stores, but I do know if it's grossly out of whack, but I do always count my change and I do it the "old fashioned" way ... backwards.

You know, total comes to $54.28 and you hand the cashier $100. I look at my change and count that as $55, then I count the bills upwards until I get to $100.

This is the way I was taught when I was a grocery store cashier in the days before registers told the cashier how much change to dispense. It comes in handy for those times when you make cash purchases at places that don't have registers. But I still do it at regular registers because while I trust the register to do math, I need to know that the math had the right formula to begin with ... IOW did the cashier enter the correct sum that I handed her which will determine the amount of change to dispense. And I have found errors like this, cashier entered $10 instead of the $20 that I handed her.

But so many youngsters today don't have this skill, and don't even know it exists. Some cashiers look at me like I have horns coming out of my head when they see me count the change again.

I know. It pays to check your register slip. Yesterday I was charged twice for a $12 item. Just happened to look over it.

I also count my change the same way. What is sad is that nowadays the register will tell the cashier how much change to give back....and the person has no idea how to MAKE the change. Example...your order is $33.49 cents you pay with a $100 and the register is telling them your change is $67.51 they stand there with the dumbest look because they dont know how to make $67.51. Makes you wonder why schools even have math as a class when the kids now a days use calculators. I learned to use my fingers, toes, freckles.

My nieces's algebra teacher told me at a parent's teacher's meeting that he teaches algebra on the calculator. The kids don't have to write out the problem solving process on paper, just write down the answer they get on the calculator. I told him it was just a class how to use the fancy calculator, the children weren't learning thought processes how to solve problems. My DGD goes to a very small school and no calculators are allowed in algebra class or on tests but the teacher does have a course on how to use the fancy calculators. The teacher is also having a class after school how to use the slide rule. The kids thinks it's super! Two teachers had to volunteer so many kids come to that after school class. The hardest part was finding enough slide rules to use. LOL

Can't go knocking "all" the youngsters -

Many of them are taking Advanced Placement classes and are way ahead of the game.

"Some" are very math/arithmetic deficient. So are some "adults"

Maybe some of the responsibility for what kids are taught should be placed on the school boards and who controls the school boards?

I was shocked recently when my granddaughter asked for a calculator to do her homework...she's in the second grade! I tried to talk her out of it, but my DDIL assured me that the teacher encourages the kids to use calculators! It's no wonder people can't make change these days.

i went through the drive in of a fast food place and gave the clerk my money which included some change so she would only give me paper money back. she couldn't figure it out. i told her what it should be. she called her Manager who told her to give me an incorrect amount! i had to tell her also. sigh!!!

My niece's classes are in the higher placement classes. She is taking college prep courses. She uses the calculator for all her math even on tests. (for those without students in their home, it's not the average calculator but more like a mini computer) I haven't seen much difference in the higher placement classes as far as learning, just need those requirement on paper to get a better chance of getting into the college of choice or a scholarship. That's the only part they play in getting a student ahead of the game. My niece can ace all her tests taking but for actually knowing anything, not so much in what I have observed.

the worst I have seen, is when I wetn to buy 20 ft of chain ( we lived on a farm) the poor girl only had a 10 ft measure...... she had to go find assistance to see how to measure the length I wanted...
My children were allowed to use calculators AFTER they proved they knew how to do it with out....

there are pros and cons to every technology.....

I'm teaching students to count change this way.

The young are so tech savvy, I envy them. They may not have some of the basic skills we have but lets face it, technology is the way of the future.

So, how many of you were not allowed to use a sewing machine until you mastered the art of hand piecing. Who learned to make all their clothes with nothing but newspaper, scissors, needle and thread. These were once necessary skills. That doesn't mean they apply to life today.

I used to count change in my head to help me fall asleep and to hone my own skills as I started out as a cashier - it is becoming a lost art, along with cursive writing! :)

our local pizza place is making the cashiers who take the orders and payment to count the change back to people not using the cash register. she is making it stick too. they just took over the place and are redoing it and it really looks nice. they have invested a whole lot of money in the place also. I guess if you can't count change you don't have a job. There are a lot of people who do not evenknow how to make change. our school system needs to change. a lot of kids today might have to work someplace where there is no such thing as a calculator or a computer--don't know how to use typewriter or correct their own mistakes. have spell check on computer.

<Raising my hand> My mother wouldn't let me use her 60s sewing machine until I proved to her that I could sew an outfit by hand. She didn't think I would do it, but I did.

I found out that I should check my cutting slip at stores also. Went to cash register at a chain fabric store and it rang up to almost $400. The clerk says, I don't think this is right. The 2 yd. piece was rung up at 22 yds and several other mistakes. I need to be more aware (just typed Awake-guess that applies to).

Kind of apples and oranges. I'm talking about a basic math skill that could very well apply in every person's life as we know it TODAY. I may not have a calculator when I buy something at a flea market or trade show, or buy cookies from the Girl Scouts in front of the store.

And consider this. There are many employers who will give math tests to prospective employee's, and NO calculators are allowed. I had to take civil servant exams, no calc's. My former employer had a test for applicants to calculate measurements in 1/16's of an inch. My current employer gives some pretty serious calculus, trig and geometry exams to prospective engineers. No calculators allowed for either, but plenty of scratch paper provided.

I do agree that calculators are great tools, and the skills should be learned. But in addition to, not in place of basic math skills. *knowing* how to make change without a cash register spitting out the amount is a life skill that all should have.

Bravo! and thank you!!

I have worked with and trained teenagers to give change for 20 years. I have never come across someone who could not count change. I'm glad none of you have ever made a mistake, ever, but not all of us are that perfect. I'm sorry you have occasionally been given incorrect change. That does not mean we should do away with calculators. I personally carry a cell phone in my pocket, so I do have a calculator at all times. I have never been in a business that has typewriters instead of computers. Those days are gone. Insulting an entire generation and the entire school system through out the country seems a bit extreme for a simple mistake.

My pet peeve is that they put the cash in the drawer before they count out the change. Very easy to say 'I gave you a twenty' when you gave them a 'ten'.

I am an old cashier and so was my mom. I learned to count change at an early age and use it all the time.

I made sure my children learned (34 and 36) and my son is a trucker and adds mileage and fuel consumption stuff like crazy in his head.

Taught the kids to read a regular clock before I would give them a digital and had a harder time teaching them military time, but both kids use it in their jobs.

Just last week in my one nursing class, teacher asked if anyone knew how to tell military time. Only two of us raised our hands. The others acted as though she was talking a foreign language. She said they need to learn because the job will require it.

All good skills to have.

It is really gets bad when you hand the clerk a $100. bill for your purchase of 74.21......then you find a penny.......the clerks are completely and totally lost..........after all the register had told them ( not to think) and give you back 25.79. I once had a clerk who was so confused she handed me back my cent and told me the cash register would not accept it.

It is really gets bad when you hand the clerk a $100. bill for your purchase of 74.21......then you find a penny.......the clerks are completely and totally lost..........after all the register had told them ( not to think) and give you back 25.79. I once had a clerk who was so confused she handed me back my cent and told me the cash register would not accept it.

I need a "like" button for this one. Oops! Meant to quote bearisgrey's post

what irritates me the most is when they take the bill you gave them and put it right in the register - unless they remember what you gave them, there is no proof
I had someone once give me a 10 - I put it ON the register not in - and got their change. They tried to tell me they gave me a 20. Wonder how many times these folks have gotten taken?????

Maybe not but it is good to know anyway. I made my kids learn that way.The way I look at it. What happens if you are not able to have electricity one day? The old timey ways of doing things are going to be very useful

It's not recent that people don't know how to make change so the blame isn't fully on the use of computers instead of their heads. I remember back about 45 years ago before computerized registers that my supermarket used to have a lot of items for sale at 3 for $1. Cashiers had a problem if I bought only one item.

Another problem is that many young kids couldn't care less about getting the correct change, theirs included. It's the "whatever' attitude.

I remember this instance: my purchase was $10.36. I gave the cashier $20.01. The cashier handed me back the penny. I told her I didn't like pennies. She said well "I can't take it"! I said yes you can, just give me back $9.65. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!

Several years ago DH and I had a small yogurt shop. Employees were HS kids. I taught them to make change in the manner you describe and one of them asked me one time. Why bother? The cash register does it for you. I asked her how she was going to do her job if the register stopped working or the power went out. She replied that she would close the door and go home. Needless to say we hired a more enlightened employee. Ann in TN

First let me assure you that I am NOT a youngster. I had a run-in with an old geezer (probably the same age as me, but stuck in the "olden days" ) the other day at the local diner about this same thing. He was sitting there in his bib overalls (or overhauls as he called them) griping about kids using computers in schools. Going on and on about how when he was young they had to learn to do everything "by hand". He was sure that the kids now days are much stupider than he was because the old fashioned ways were best. Finally, having had enough, I spoke up and said, " If you have grandkids, you better HOPE and PRAY that they learn how to use computers and have them available to learn on, because if they don't, and you encourage them to do things the old fashioned way, they have no chance of surviving in the world when they are grown. Just because your grandparents used horses to plow with, doesn't mean the guys who use the fancy new air-conditioned, computerized tractors aren't farmers. And oh, by the way, because of technology, they work smarter and produce more than the guys with the horse - pulled plows did". Just because things have progressed from what we grew up with, doesn't mean the old way was better. It's good to have the old knowledge, but, it's good to keep learning new things too. Just my opinion, of course.

Several years ago DH and I had a small yogurt shop. Employees were HS kids. I taught them to make change in the manner you describe and one of them asked me one time. Why bother? The cash register does it for you. I asked her how she was going to do her job if the register stopped working or the power went out. She replied that she would close the door and go home. Needless to say we hired a more enlightened employee. Ann in TN

That is how I count change. My children know how to do this, but only because I made them learn it when they were doing the how to count money math in school. They would come home and we would spend some time each day to figure out how to do it without calculators. It drove them nuts! Now, if I can only get them to understand tax..... LOL

double post

how true Barb

One should always count there change and no reason for them to get upset because we do. Many cashiers today don't even count what they give you. They just give you what it says and put it in your hands without first checking to see that they themselves counted it right.

Speaking of cashiers I have a couple funny stories to tell. Several years ago a gent was at Walmart and paying for his merchandise with cash which were all two dollar bills. The gal refused to take it saying it was not real money because we did not have two dollar bills. So we proceeded to tell her it was real money and it was good. She still refused saying we were wrong....yet we were born in this country and use the money all the time. We had to deman that a floor manager be called. She refused. We refused to move until a manager was called. One finally came and told her it was real money. I traded the two dollar bills from that gent that day and gave him bills she understood. Point being these cashiers are trained only in $1,5, 10 and $20 bills. Most of them cannot count the way we learned when we were in school.

Another incident happened a few years back when speciality one dollar coins were made and I tried using them again in Walmart and the gal ....different cashier refusing to take them. These were duplicates of ones I save. We went through the same routine again and the gal was told it was American money and to accept it.

It would be nice if retailers trained there employees on all the various money pieces we have in this country. And also trained them on counting change back to customers instead of just putting it in there hands and trying to rush you out of there.

I always make sure to count what they give me back and don't care if they get upset that we do.

math - dont get me started! I hated math in school, all the way from grade school thru college. Now, I cannot stay away from books on physics!

kids in the USA, for the most part, hate math. Not because its hard, but because you actually have to take a few min to think thru the work! As a group, Americans do not like anything they cannot do instantly, and 3 things at once. With all the instant hardware out there, kids dont care about thinking, only about doing.

Schools have a hard time dealing with this - this need for speed in all things. Plus, growing up, it was said by every adult, "girls are bad in math," what a crock that was! we use math every time we alter a recipe, make a quilt, do anything around the home. Don't let a teacher tell you, well, its harder now, theres more to learn out here. 0-9 have been around since the Greeks or earlier, we have an alphabet that hasnt changed in 500 yrs. (and, I was in literacy volunteers, trying to help adults learn to read - there are 1000 site words out there that we use more than 80% thru our whole lifetime - if you make sure your child knows these words thats 80% of the battle for learning how to read well). Mostly, kids do what they see their parents doing - if you dont act scared of numbers, and read in the home that will help your kids more tha you can imagine.

Here's all anyone needs to do math: grasp the concept that the numbers we use are 0 thru 9, and then, how you can take those numbers and add them, and subtract them. That is all there is to math: 10 numbers, adding and subtracting. Division and multiplication are formulas to add and subtract faster. After that, once you learn the formula, the "tricks", the short cuts to that long list of adding and subtracting, well, you can do rocket science. After that its a matter of learning there are what I call recipes, or formulas (depending on what doesnt intimidate you!) that can manipulate those 0-9 numbers. Algebra, calc etc - once you grasp the idea of the symbols, the Xs, Ys, the numbers will always come down to 0 thru 9. The biggest block is always in your own head saying its too hard and you're to dumb to "get it".

The best gift a parent or grand can give their kids is teaching them their numbers 0-9 and not making them afraid to use them. A love for numbers, reading, and writing are just about as basic as it gets - after that its all gravy. Teaching your child that they can do anything they put their minds and hearts in after these basics are understood is a gift to them, and to the rest of us, really - they are our future even if we've never met any of them.

If I had not been afraid of math growing up I could have been a phsyicist and been quite happy about it. I hated math and got a A in a college level accounting course that was mandatory for me to take. It took 60 yrs for math to click in my head, like turning on a light.

We are producing a society so dumbed down we are importing engineers and math folks from overseas. Hubs retired as a Chemical PE and they were hard pressed to find a replacement; he worked with Egyptian, Indian, Polish, British and Italian engineers (not American!) who could barely speak English but were really good in math!

As for making change, with machines that think for you a person only needs to know how to push the right buttons in the right order - its impossibly sad to me when anyone cannot count out proper change to the penny. This is second grade work. How in the world can anyone get a job in this country when they cannot function at a second grade level! sharet

My ten year old GD made that comment not to long ago when she asked me to use a calculator to add her math and I told her no. I asked her if the teacher allows them to use it in class to which she said no. So I asked her why should it be different with doing her homework to which she responded "all my friends use them and it's quicker" to which I replied "and I'll bet when it comes time for them to take a math test they will fail because they did not know how to add or subtract, or even mulitple using there brain."

I proceeded to teach her how to do it in her head without a calculator.

I remember growing up getting answers for a math problem by the time the teacher put it on the board. I was in about 3rd, 4th grade when the Catholic Nun who was teaching us how to add large groups of numbers and my always coming up with the answer in my head and having it by time she put her last number on board. It use to baffle her to no end.

Back when I went to school we learned reading, writing and arithmetic which comprised only adding, subtracting, mulitplication, and division.

Anyway she was good at putting these huge rows of numbers on the board sometimes as much as ten rows across and ten down. By the time she put the last number down I had written the answer on a piece of paper. She would ask after a few minutes who had the answer and of course I always raised my hand and some days she wished someone else did.

She did not do like teachers today do such as putting number across row by row. She would start to the right bottom of the board and put a number and work her way up than go back to botton and start over again. So as she was doing that I was counting those numbers going up and mark it down and carry mentally in my mind when she started the second row and went up. Hence by time she put the last number down I had the answer.

She pretty much did the same with subtraction that she put on board up to 5 numbers across. She would put the first number down and put the top one than move to the left and repeat so by time she put last two numbers down I had the answer.

Today teachers if they even put numbers down on board it's straight across row by row.

It's amazing to me how many work in retail as cashiers and who can't count change out unless a machine tells them to. But what do we expect when you have stores today such as fast food and even grocery stores that show pictures on keys for cashiers to punch for products and they never have to put in an amount.

My husband is a math teacher and he insists on the students showing him their written work step-by-step. Calculators or not, the work must be there. As a homeschooling mom, my kid's learned to count change the old fashioned way as part of our math. Their brains need the exercise!!!!!

Several years ago I bought 2 cookies at a stand and gave the guy $5.00 for a 2.37 transaction. The cash register was broken and this poor guy was clueless what to do. He stood at the register and mumbled for a few seconds, went in the back to see if somebody there could help him and then tried to figure it out with pencil and paper. I finally had to help him figure out what change to give me back. Had the same thing happen at the grocery store a couple of years ago. I cashier part time and always count the change back the old fashioned way. I alwasy get comments about it...its a lost art.

I was taught this in grade school. Do they teach useful things like this any more?