Help settle an argument
 

I have a dear friend that does needle turn applique. I do landscape quilts and art quilts with fusible raw edge applique. She refuses to call what I do applique because each edge is not individually stitched down. We teach collage classes together but she was setting up a class for us to teach fusible applique. She told the shop owner that the way i do it is collaging. But there is far more to it than fusing down a bunch of oddly shaped motifs. I trace patterns, configure and fuse many carefully planned parts. When I longarm quilt it, the stitches hold it all down. I feel like she is downplaying what I do.
I think maybe we need to come up with a mutually acceptable term that doesn't insult my process or hers. Any thoughts?

Grrrr, it is raw edge applique. there are different types. goodness, some people. now i was one who said I would never ever let anyone finish machine quilting any of my quilts. well I have and it's no big deal. I made it and it is mine. doesn't matter about rules! keep going and ignore that person or anyone like her.

To me applique is applying fabric (any way you want) to a background. It's a pretty broad technique, which is why it's often clarified with an adjective: Raw Edge Applique, Turned Edge Applique, fused applique etc.
I googled it and here is the definition
'ornamental needlework in which pieces of fabric are sewn or stuck onto a large piece of fabric to form pictures or patterns.'

Found similar definition. Stick to your way and if she does not want to understand, then she is to be pitied!

Applique is just the fancy French term for applying...same root word. You are both applying 1 layer of fabric over another, no matter how it is done. Sounds like y'all need to come to some kind of agreement or you will be miserable trying to teach a class together and everyone will pick up on it...

According to Mr. Google, a collage is formed by sticking various materials that do not normally go together onto a common surface. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/collage This does not apply at all to what you do. Your "dear friend" is simply ignorant and needs to be educated.

Perhaps your friend should look at some of Edyta Sitar's work. She has many talents, including books and patterns for quilts and raw edge applique! I have one of her books with raw edge applique designs, beautiful. But if you have to explain this to your "friend" and defend your work, I am sorry. Doesn't seem very friend-like to me.

Are you teaching this class together?

How about - "collaging using fusible applique technique"

or

"using fusible applique techniques to achieve a collage effect" ?

One definition of "collage" - a piece of art made by sticking various different materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric onto a backing.

I think she likes being an applique martyr.

You need a new friend who is not a quilt police snob! Sorry, but I really think there are so many more ways to sew a quilt and we need to support each other and not tear each other down.
I have a friend who has done beautiful needle turn. I am the beneficiary of a quilt she did. However, I do not want to and will not sit there and take that amount of time to do it. I do machine applique and am very happy doing so. It is one of the reasons I bought my machine. I have drawn up the basic design for a Landscape quilt that will be raw edge applique and it will take as much time planning and effort as any needleturn.
Your method is different than hers, and it is not any better nor worse than hers. Perhaps the class should just be called Applique Methodology, since more than one type will be taught.
Just my double needles worth...
Good luck,
Susan

not by business, but I can't help but wonder why she wants to co-teach a fusible applique class when she doesn't think it's applique???
That being said, I co-teach a beginners class and our applique class includes needle turn, turned & machine sewn, & fusible raw edge----we teach that the basic process is the same with some differences in the prep and finish. Good luck--this sounds like it could be an unpleasant experience if there is already such difference of opinion!

Applique
 

Through most of my 80 years, I have been quick to criticize. I'm trying to do a better job (if that is the term) of accepting whatever others do without criticizing them. I hear your frustration and I believe that at some time in our lives, we have all been there. I guess I would suggest that you accept her lack of understanding of your work and try to approach her with kindness; and find a way to carefully explain to her that both ways are "applique", some people love to needle turn (I did that years ago). It is time consuming and yet beautiful. I, personally, prefer the "raw-edge fused applique, which allows me to do so much more; to accomplish so much more and to create a whole bunch of beautiful pieces. I do believe that if our predecessors, had access to fusing materials, they would have loved raw-edge applique. We are so blessed today with all of the new and useful tools and materials that were not available to our ancestors. If she continues to try and justify "her way", and if her friendship is important to you, try to ignore it. Otherwise, it will drive you crazy. In your class, you have the opportunity to offer both ways and allow the sewist to choose which she/he prefers. Very nice to have choices. Good luck. I'm sure you will find a way to resolve this without loosing a friend.

I prefer turned under, machine appliqué to raw-edge or hand-sewn. All are appliqué techniques. Just like piecing a quilt can be done my hand or machine but it is still called piecing. geesh....welcome her to the 21st century and the gazillion modern techniques designed to create the same result. We are so lucky to be able to chose the one we enjoy doing the most.

Or an applique snob who thinks only needle turn applique is "real" applique.

I do fusible applique. Yes applique!!! You refer to her as a dear friend. I would wonder why such a dear friend would feel the need to denigrate my work, and need to be so unfeeling. Clearly she has not researched applique. I would ask her where she got her quilt police badge!!

Ohhhh My Goodness. There are so many techniques for any one application. I'm thankful for whatever technique they might be classified as; and her position of superiority is crap. Any and all techniques should be welcomed and encouraged to encompass every creative mind

I wonder why your friend feels the need to put other people down to make herself feel bigger. Shake it off. It's her issue, not yours. Don't allow her to make her issue one of your issues. If you can't you may need to put some distance between you two.

Your dear friend needs to go back to art school or get a dictionary/encyclopedia and learn the difference between collage and applique. Depending upon the context, one uses applique to create a collage!

Some more musings from another 80 year old. I am amazed at people who want to protect their territory at all costs. Yes, applique used to be needle turn and perfection was tiny stitches that buried themselves and were invisible. It was in the same boat as 10 quilting stitch per inch. Both slow. Now we have marvelous machines and lots of products that fuse and stabilize and allow lots of expansion of artistic expression. Most recently, along these lines, is the collage process. Wow, what artistic expression. There are several notable designers that have taken fusible applique to new heights and in new directions. I'm so glad. I have done one for a granddaughter and it was so much fun. I looked at some fabrics I had in a very different way so I could use them in a different way. Please let your artistic whims and expressions flow out to your class members. Let them find their own comfort level and fly to new heights, or, resettle back into a previous comfort zone.

It really doesn't bother me what she feels about the process. It is just that she is selling our classes to quilt shops and giving inaccurate information.

Normally I don’t give advice, but you asked. I have been burned enough by “friends” that I don’t put up with the kind of treatment she’s giving you. You will have to decide if you want to continue with the put downs and disrespect she’s giving you in return for...what?
Absolutely I would not go in with her in teaching a class. Ever.

Edited to add: One true friend who builds you up instead of tearing you down is worth ten who minimize and denigrate you. I know from having been there.

have you two ever taught a class together? if yes, how did it go?

Actually we have taught several collage classes together. We have different methods which we both share in class. Our students seem to enjoy the options. The only sticky part is when we discuss the Christmas village quilt class and she refers to my method as collage and not applique.

I wouldn’t take it personally, as I don’t feel it was meant that way. Sounds like she is a purist who believes appliqué should involve some sort of sewing. Otherwise it’s just fusing. Maybe you should be teaching separately since you have such differing viewpoints on appliqué.

I'm trying to wonder why she cares so much. Sounds kind of silly to me.

just stand up when it's your turn and say this is not considered collage and go from there. Good luck!!

you do raw edge applique. she does a turned edge applique (whether it is hand done or machine done). I would continue to call your work applique and be proud of the work you do and teach!

Nancy Zieman has shows of landscape quilting using the raw edge applique and the pieces quilted down in the way you described.

You answered the question! Both suggestions are good, although I lean towards the first. This solves how to promote the class without losing a friend who happens to see only in rigid black and white in this area. You found a way to not put a wedge in the friendship by being respectful of the friend’s shortcomings/weakness.

The confusion is in her mind. Collage refers to the various objects that are applied to the surface (or appliqued, to use the French word). It's a mix. If I add cream and sugar to my coffee, it's a coffee collage, regardless whether I stir it with a spoon, fork, or my index finger.

Your issue sounds like one of integrity: will you align yourself with someone who is selling something using misinformation? Clearly, it's not merely her pride that's the problem (and it is), but her lack of truthfulness. I'd use the words "integrity" and "honesty" and "truthfulness" (or their antonyms) in a private conversation with her. If she refuses to admit that selling something as something it's not, I'd part ways with her. You have your own reputation to uphold, and if your friend can't support that, is she really a friend?

Absolutely Zozee and prior posting on "collage." Please find the official definition at the bottom. As to your friend, first, let her enjoy the blessing that she has enough time to do her preferred method. Indeed, needle turned is beautiful, but so, so labor intensive. I prefer to get the look via very lightweight interfacing sewn completely around the fabric's right side, cut out with a very narrow seam allowance, slit the interfacing and "birth" the piece, carefully poking out points and corners, etc. and ironing flat. A nice blanket stitch or narrow hem stitch with barely discernable thread and it's hard to tell the difference.

I think your "friend" has a need to be appreciated and is making all kind of effort to get her skill acknowledged. Sad.

As to the collage definition, pass the responsibility of it to Webster, but do share with your friend:

noun


1. a technique of composing a work of art by pasting on a single surface various materials not normally associated with one another, as newspaper clippings, parts of photographs, theater tickets, and fragments of an envelope.


2. a work of art produced by this technique.
Compare assemblage (def 3).

3. an assemblage or occurrence of diverse elements or fragments in unlikely or unexpected juxtaposition:
The experimental play is a collage of sudden scene shifts, long monologues, musical interludes, and slapstick.

4. a film that presents a series of seemingly unrelated scenes or images or shifts from one scene or image to another suddenly and without transition.

I think her life is somewhat empty. Help her fill it up in a positive way and I believe she'll settle down a bit. Bless you for handling this and may you have a wonderful class full of choices.

Just wondering? What does she call all the quilts that are designed and sold as "fusible applique", like McKenna Ryan's kits and designs? Why has she taken upon herself to be the one who defines exactly what "appliqué" is in the first place? Yes, she needs to be educated.
BTW, there is no argument here, she is just wrong.

I feel your pain. It's clear that you care about her opinion and her friendship. It seems that her opinion is strong and she boldly - maybe without realizing it - disparages your work.

Have you ever told her that her opinion on this particular subject hurts you and you feel it demeans Your work? I think that her discussion with the shop owner was out of line, especially since it seems you were not there during the discussion.

Mutually acceptable terms: perhaps defining the class as teaching several techniques for fusible applique would work for the two of you?

Is it possible to have a heart to heart discussion with her where you gently tell her that her opinion is noted, but you disagree with it and please never speak of it again. Ask her to respect both your work and your reputation when working out a class schedule and content with a shop owner, especially when you will be teaching/co-teaching a class for the owner.

There was a time when only hand quilting was considered the only way to quilt a quilt. Machine quilting a quilt was considered cheating, Harriet Hargrave helped to change all that.

As time goes on and more and more people find new and creative ways to do the same thing -- we call this progress. As they say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat." Of course, not that I would ever want to skin a cat, just saying...

You might want to suggest to your friend that 'applique' is an umbrella term under which there are several types of methods. She knows that there are other methods of applique than the one that she likes to use, such as hand whip stitched, or machine zig zagged. The method of applique your friend is doing is 'needle turn applique.' Your method is 'fusible raw edge applique.' I've also seen plenty of raw edge applique that doesn't employ any fusible interface.

Here is another example: people use 1/8" satin ribbon, or yarn, or cotton floss to stitch flowers, and call all of the methods embroidery.

Someone could say about one of my pieced quilts that it's a 'collage of color.' I would agree; my quilts are a collage of color-- but that doesn't necessarily mean that my quilts are collages. The argument you have seems to be just a disagreement about semantics. English is a language with a plethora of descriptive words!

Here's a very interesting comment!! I hadn't thought of the situation from a purely sewing viewpoint. It makes me think that marketing plays a big part in our perception of what comprises applique-- because do we think it is applique simply because fabric is being used? Simply because we are buying the supplies from a LQS/JoAnn/a sewing department? If we are fusing other materials, like paper or vinyl, why is that called collage instead of applique?

She is using a confusing at best, incorrect term at worst to describe your classes. This will lead to the students being confused as to what they are going to be learning in the class. I do a lot of raw edge appliqué and none of it has been what I call a collage. If she is going to teach the class she needs to use the commonly used terminology on the techniques you are teaching. I have NEVER heard raw edge appliqué referred to as collage and I have read lots of articles and books about it.

This not only affects you, it affects your students. If this is the area of your expertise, you should have the final call on terminology. This lack of using correct terminology reflects badly on you two as teachers. I would possibly take a collage class because it’s something I haven’t done before ( and it sounds like neither of you have done this either). I would not be happy if I took a collage class and found out it was raw edge appliqué since I’m already very proficient with that.

Print out this thread and show it to her. She is being disrespectful to you and misleading to her students. Good luck.

A very good reason why I don't attend classes or any kind of groups. Seems to always have at least 1 snob in the group.

Have you told her how her words make you feel? She may not understand what her words sound like, especially if she isn't meaning to sound that way. I would start there. You post that you both are dear friends, if that is the case and you explain to her how you feel she should make an effort to not make her friend feel like less then.

If you are engaged in a business venture I fail to see how her putting your methods down makes any business or financial sense, especially considering if she as the class co-instructor doesn't value her product (the co - class) how can she "sell" other people on it?