Long arm question
 

Folks, I would like to get some words of wisdom from those of you who have a quilting machine (long arm or other). My daughter and I piece a lot of quilts and we are constantly paying to have them quilted. We have some hand quilted and some done my machine. We spend a fortune on quilting. I have tried to learn to do free motion on my machine but I haven't had much luck. I have quilted several small projects using SITD and straight lines. I have been interested in getting a long arm for some time so I could finish my own projects. I am not sure I would want to quilt for others unless it was just family and friends. I am not thinking of using it to start a quilting business. I have lots of questions. I know that the machines vary in price a LOT. I would not want, nor could I afford anything state of the art and top of the line. Again, this would be used for quilting mainly my own stuff. I know there are a lot of variables to consider, but I don't really even know where/ how to start looking. I would greatly appreciate any advice! I know they take up lots of space, but I have a room I could devote to it. I have listed some of my questions:

What (ballpark) you get a decent user-friendly machine for?
What brand/ type would you suggest to meet my needs?
Are they sold used or reconditioned very often?
How difficult is it to learn to use them?
I was thinking that I might try to find someone who would let me come and watch them quilt, so that I could get a feel for it. I tried a couple of machines at the Paducah quilt show, but I left when the sales pitch started because I was not serious about getting one at the time. Thanks in advance for any help!

I don't have one but pricewise the baileys have seem to be the cheapest, I would imagine there is a learning curve but some LQS's or quilt shows do offer classes for you to learn, some dealers do as well. it really depends on your budget.

I have a Viking 18.8 and like it very much and it does a good job. There are tons of machines out there and you can find good used ones at dealers or on places like Craigslist. There is a lot to learn and takes lots of practice but if I can do it you can too. With two people quilting you should get your moneys worth by just quilting for yourself. I don't quilt for anyone else, not that they would want me too,lol, I think it is worth the money to have one if you want one. Go for it.

I don't think it is difficult to learn how to use one.

first- start by visiting dealers & shows- try out machines- there are a vast difference and variety of machines. in all price ranges- machines can be found used- people trade in when they upgrade- people sell them when their lives change- frames/tables/whole set ups vary-
first step is to go visit a few in person- at shows you can generally try them out & have some fun-
some quilt shops have machines they will let you take a class to learn to use-then rent time on it to do your own quilts- start locally- also, talk to your regular (long-arm) quilter- see if she would allow you some time to check out her machine/setup...when i first bought mine i took a certification class at a quilt shop in Florida- the 4 hour class was $50 - once certified you could rent time for $20 an hour when you wanted to quilt your quilts- I offer the same to the customers who bring me their quilts- i have had a few people come in & take the class- quilt a quilt or two- then decide although kind of fun they would rather pay me to do it- they either don't want to spend the time or have decided it's more work than they thought- but they still can come in & do their own if they want to=or made that special quilt they really want to be completely from them...
first step is 'test drives' just like buying a car (& sometimes more expensive than) prices range from a couple thousand right up to mortgage levels...depending on the 'bells & whistles' you want/need

Here's a great article:
http://r.b5z.net/i/u/10076798/f/shop...or_longarm.pdf

Contact your LQS to see if there is a Long Arm Quilting group in your area. they obviously have lots of info, if there's no LA group, check with a quilting guild. If nothing else, you can get info on the local dealers.

look up quilts shows and expos in your area-then you can test drive nearly every make on the same day.prices very as do quality of machines/frames.Warranties and support very also.Sometimes you can find a used machine in the newspaper or ebay.

Check the APQS website http//:www.apqs.com They have smaller models as well as larger. They are made in Carroll, Iowa. Their support is fantastic so are the people on their forum. You can take classes from them and they even offer a class on how to keep your machine maintained on your own. They often have used machines available.

I started, by buying a Juki 2010 for about $900 and then a quilting frame from a quilter here. I also got a stitch regulator and kept my cost below $2000 for all. I used that for about a year. The 9 inch harp worked well especially for my own quilts and the quilts I quilted for my church. I love long arming so i financed a longarm with a 18 inch harp . I recommend if money is a consideration and you are unsure if you want to dive into a long arm expense, try a juki and frame. Even if you decide that quilting isn't for you, the Juki 2010 is a work horse sewing machine.....

Some quilting stores will rent time on their long arms - this would be good way to get a feel for it and decide if it's something you want to invest in. Prices vary a lot - I bought my 16" HandiQuilter Avante for just under $10K, but lots of people have found used machines for less. One advantage of buying through a dealer, esp. if they are local is that they will provide setup help, initial training, and support. My dealer is going to offer long arm classes to everyone who bought a machine from her (for a cost, I'm sure). Figure out how much you spend on quilting a year, and that may help you determine your budget for a long arm.

I do not have a long arm, but I sometimes help my sister who has one. There is a lot more work involved than I would have ever dreamed. There are so many different things that can go wrong. If I were you, I would do as others have suggested....try one out. Take classes or rent time or find some way to get really familiar with one before you buy. My sister bought hers used, and not locally, and there isn't anyone nearby who services it or knows how to fix it if it has a problem, so she has had to figure it out herself. I would hate to have anyone else get a machine and not have some sort of local support.

Dina

I have the HQ Avante and highly recommend it. Easy to use, small learning curve. They average about $9000. They come with Stitch Regulator (a must in my opinion), frame and machine. The machine has EVERYTHING made JUST for the Avante. Compared to other low-end machines that aren't. For example -- The stitch regulator for the Tin Lizzy is actually generic and is used on 6 different machines. I had a Pfaff Grandquilter that used that regulator and it NEVER worked right. I haven't looked to see if you can find them on the 2nd hand market.....but DO talk to a dealer and ask if he has a floor demo model. Our dealer provides classes once a month........or you can pay to go to Utah to take their courses (spendy!!!).

Good luck -- I think you'd enjoy having one!

I spent about a year researching this subject, reading comments on the QB about various setups, the homequiltingsystems group on groups.yahoo.com , etc. I finally decided on a Voyager 17 with a stretch Hinterberg frame. You can purchase these at http://www.hinterberg.com and another good place I found is http://www.sewingmachinesplus.com . I have read that the stitch regulator for the Voyager is not that great so I decided I did not need that. I had planned to call the two sources above to compare prices and then order this setup next year, planning to cap it at $4,000. However, a member of our quilt guild advertised her setup for sale (she is upgrading to an APQS) and it is exactly what I was going to order, so I bought hers used with some extras for $3,000.

I decided first on the stretch Hinterberg frame because all the comments I have seen about them have been really good. It is not only sturdy, but is easy to assemble and disassemble. Also the roller assembly that allows the machine to move freely always seems to get really good comments. It sells for about $900 online, but might be less with a coupon code. (Always Google coupon codes for an online company before placing an order!)

For the machine, I debated for awhile between a Juki with a 9" throat and the larger midarm machines. The current new Juki sells for about $900. Decided I really didn't want to deal with a small throat on a large quilting frame. Kept my eye out for comments about Tin Lizzie, Bailey, and Voyager machines. The Voyager always seemed to get positive comments. Have seen tension problems mentioned for the TL and Bailey. And that's how I decided on the Voyager.

I had a chance to try out the Voyager/Hinterberg setup before I bought it. Although the machine is heavy (about 70 lbs), it moves very well on the Hinterberg frame. I do think that the frame quality is extremely important to a setup -- just as important as the machine quality!

I too just want to quilt for myself and family. I think this setup will work well for me without breaking the bank. If I ever upgrade, I would probably look first at the Innova. Aside from consistently good reviews, there is a dealer not far from me.

The big thing to remember is service. Make sure you have a dealer inthe area who will service your machien when you need it serviced. My mom had a Nolting and she loves it. The dealer is 45 miles away so that makes it easy to get the things she needs for her long arm quilting.

I would stay away from the Husqvarna 18.8. I am having tons of trouble with mine (less than 3 years old) and no resolution after months of waiting and attempted repairs by Husqvarna. My friend also has an 18.8 and it is the same story.

I agree with the Avante. I picked up a used one from a local quilt store for $7000. I learned by doing charity quilts for the local guild while at the store for a few days. Then the previous owner came to my house and set it all up, plus left another charity quilt to do at my home, to make sure everything was working right before I tried quilting one of my own. I became very good at meandering and loop-d-loop, quickly ;-)

I've never had a problem with the machine and it was heavily used by many at the shop. I hear Handiquilter has excellent customer service, though I have not had to use them yet.

WOW!! You folks are great! I was afraid people would say that I should look back at past board posts or something. (and I will do that too) I am trying to "soak it all up". I would like to stay below $5,000 if a good set-up can be had for that. I probably spend $1200 to $1500 a year on quilting, and that doesn't count what my daughter and close friends spend. I assume they can be financed, so I guess I could spend more and do that. I do not need tons of bells and whistles but I do need user- friendly and a warranty. Maybe the used option is not a good one due to the lack of support and warranty. So much to think about.......I agree that I need to take my time and do my research. THANKS SO MUCH and keep the info coming. I want to hear from anyone who has words of wisdom!

It seems you have your quilty ducks in a row. You have look and played with the various machines at shows. this is a good starting place. Know t hat some machines are quickly sold as used so that the owners can get a better machine.

I have a used HQ 16. I get great service locally if needed. Though I have just called to HQ and gotten answers for any questions I had. I love it! P.S. I only do my own or charity quilts at this time. I'm just not ready to work for others ... except a few friends.

Now we have more than 1 LQS in our area that rents out time on their Gammills. You have to take a one-on-one session to make sure yuo know how to use the machine. Then you reserve the time slot you want. Some of those using these machine actually do quilting for others and charge for the service. If this is available in your area it is a good first step. Also if you are limited on space in your home this is ideal.

ali

Given that you tried, and were not successful with FMQ on your domestic, perhaps the best way to start is to take an LA class at your local dealer. The classes (as someone mentioned) are about $50 - which is a much smaller investment than popping several thousand just to find out that you might not be successful with a long arm either!!

I don't have a long arm machine, but I do have a long arm quilt frame. When I have my quilt all pieced, I put it on the frame, then I put my regular sewing machine on the frame and quilt. Granted, I can only quilt a strip of approx. 5" wide, so I have to stop and roll more often, but it works well and I am getting a real feel for what it is like to use a long arm. Mostly I have done meandering and waves. I've tried, on scrap fabric, to do feathers but they will take much more practice. When I finally get a long arm, I will have a good idea what to expect. (P.S. I bought a Bernina frame right after the Mid-Atlantic Quilt Show and got a great price - but you can find frames - new and second hand - for sale online.)

I am a devoted APQS user. Love the machine and the customer support is beyond fantastic. That being said, there are so many different machine brands out there...do your research and go for it. You will never look back. Now, when I bought Jennie(my Millennium) I didn't do any research except for the fact that a friend had one of the older APQS machines and never had any problems with it. So, off to Des Moines we went to their showroom and that's what I ended up with. Never been sorry.
Hope that whatever you decide on that you have a wonderful time with it.

Call the companies and ask about used or traded machines. I think the first place to get the best info is right from the manufacture.

Don't be afraid of a used machine. When they are traded in they are taken well care of. the reputattion of the company is on the line so they take great care of customers.

good luck in your search. let us know what you got.
peace

Just because you didn't like FMQ on your domestic machine, does not mean you will not have a natural talent on a long arm. They are tow entirely differently ways of quilting. I hated doing FMQ on my domestic machine and decided, after quilting 4 quilts, that I was not going to do that forever. Not when it was big quilts I was working with. If I were you, I would try the different machines at a Quilt show. That is what I did. You will know which one is the right "feel" for you. There are many good deals on used machines out there. If you go on the APQS Forum--go th "Machines for Sale" and you will find many good deals. I think there is also a HQ16 listed on there right now. If I were to buy a used machine, I would not hesitate to buy one on the APQS Forum. Or there is the APQS.com where you can find teh DEMO machines on sale right now--but that may be a higher price tag than you want to spend. I do not know anything about the Voyager or Bailey's machines. I did have a Tin Lizzie 18 and had problems with it. I also do quilting for others so it was heaviy used. It may have been just fine for me if I were only quilting as a hobby for myself. I believe every company will have a "lemon" sometimes just like you can buy a brand new car and get a "lemon". I think I had a lemon because there are other people on here that have Tin Lizzies and love them and have had no problems with them. I think an HQ 16 or an 18" in any brand would serve your needs just fine. I bought a APQS Freedom last November and love it. It has a 26" throat because I wanted teh longer throat, as I do alot of custom quilting for customers. I bought new because I didn't ahve the funds available to be able to buy a used one straight out. When buying new, you can finance teh machine, which enables you to get what you really want. Your other option might be to get a Sit-Down machine. They have lots of quiting space. Various companies also have them. I know HQ, BabyLock, APQS, and I think Innova, all has a sit-down machine. Good luck on your search. Keep us updated to what progress you make in your decision.

I forgot to ask if there is a model that takes up less space than others. I know the machines are large and I have a room to devote to it (or will have after some rearranging) but it would be nice to have one that was not so awfully large. I am assuming that you buy the huge rolls of batting and maybe even backing. Is it a problem to quilt small things on them. (table runners,etc.) I have lots and lots of small things made that I need to get quilted. Maybe I could learn on those. Please keep posting any tips and tell me why you like your setup. I am soaking it all in!!

I also have found several books on long arm quilting. Some of them even discuss how to purchase one to meet your needs. Has anyone found a book that was especially helpful?

kimg, the size of the quilting frame really depends on how long the rollers are. Frames are almost always adaptable to whatever size roller you want. A fairly standard roller length is 10 feet, although they can go up to 14 feet for people who want to do oversize king quilts. If you want to do only small items, you can make or purchase shorter rollers. On some frames it is easy to swap out the roller sizes to go bigger or smaller. Here is a link to Hinterberg's frame for domestic sewing machines (harp size up to 11 inches):
http://www.hinterberg.com/prod-Origi...g_Frame-5.aspx
Rollers are expensive to ship, so usually you buy a frame and then purchase metal rods at a big box hardware store cut to the length you want.

For quilting small items on a frame, I would even use basting spray. You don't *have* to use basting spray, but it's an option. Here's a Youtube video on how to do that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3Lq...ure=plpp_video

There are tabletop frames too, including one where you can buy the kit parts and assemble it yourself. There is also someone who sells directions for making a machine quilting frame and sells the carriage assemblies and parts (you need a different size carriage assembly for machines with bigger harps) on eBay. Lots of options.

Really, though, for small items I find it's easy to FMQ them on my domestic machine because they fit under the arm easily. You don't really need a frame setup for small items. I purchased mine because I *hate* trying to FMQ larger quilts on my domestic machine. It's more fun for me to move the machine than the quilt!

Edit: If you want links to the kit and to the eBay seller of directions and parts, I can look them up for you.

My biggest tip is if you can afford a longarm (18 + inches) don't get a midarm. You will only wish you would've gotten a bigget throat. I have a Tin Lizzie 18LS with Quilt Magician and love it! But I have been thinking of going even bigger since I am doing a lot more customer work.

I do want to be able to do large projects. Most of the quilts I make are a good queen size. I like doing some small things but I could always do those on my PFAFF. I have done SITD and some basic quilting (straight lines) on it. My main objective is to be able to do large quilts. I have tried to do free motion and I have just not been able to do it well. I have a PFAFF Expression 2.0 and a couple of Featherweights. I even have a really large cabinet for the Pfaff with an extension for quilting. I just don't enjoy trying to do free motion.

I had a midarm and the other poster is right, you just end up wanting to do more. I have the 18" Avante as I stated before. I swore I'd never do large quilts, but guess what, I DO do big quilts. My frame is 14 feet. My shop is 7 1/2" by 17 feet. I get by, but would love bigger. I bought one roll of batting.................NEVER again until I get more room. The packages are so much easier -- plus, less waste. I know I can piece batting, but it's a pain. With packages I choose the size closest. If you buy 120" wide batting, even if you want to make a baby quilt, you have to cut the whole 120". I don't provide backing -- apparently some professional longarmers do.........I just buy what I need when I need....so far, out of 75 + quilts, I've only bought the backing on 4 for a special customer. She was unable to go out and buy. I like to match my backing to the quilt ---- so having 20 bolts of backing on hand is NOT feasible.

Oh -- another thought --- I know some people have the mistaken impression that you can adjust the frame for the size you want to do -- it's NOT easy to do that.............trust me. I've not seen a frame yet that you can adjust the size easily. I have not looked at the table top quilt machines, so maybe they adjust easily.

I have a Baby Lock Crown Jewel which is the same machine as the HQ Avante. I have a Baby Lock dealer within driving distance so that was part of my decision (an important part) although I have not yet needed the dealer. I went to a quilt show and tried all the machines there (which were most of the 18 inch or larger ones).
I loved the feel of the Crown Jewel with a Grace Majestic frame (10 feet - 120 inches). I have done several large queen quilts on it and could probably do a small king but not a large king. 10 feet was all I had room for as you have to be able to walk to the back of the frame for pantographs.
I got it 18 months ago with an interest free loan which I have half paid off already. In that 18 months I have done 26 quilts on it plus several practice quilts with muslin. The learning has been fun. I am now doing a couple of quilts for friends. I don't think I want to start a business - that would spoil the fun.
Baby Lock had a 4 day class in St. Louis which was absolutely superb. I was really ready to go after that. It was included in the deal at the quilt show although I had to get to St. Louis and stay in a hotel for 4 days. Baby Lock hooked me up with a roommate which helped alot with the cost.
I agree that the dealer and classes are very important. Also trying out the set-up on several different brands.

I forgot -- yes, VERY IMPORTANT!!!!

I bought a Babylock Crown Jewel (my first LA) just last week with a Pearl frame and so far, I love it. I agree with everthing An Arm Long said about dealers and I also got the interest free loan. At $216 a month, that's less than what I was paying to have someone else quilt it for me. I'm learning pretty quickly and will have my first 50x50 inch quilt finished in a few days. (mostly SID but I did do a curvy design in the boarder using Press and Seal method to mark the pattern).

Dee,
Are you saying that if I do large quilts, I will want to keep the frame set up for large quilts? I was hoping to be able to do small things also.

i really have a lot to learn! ..but learning will be fun! Thanks again to all who have posted. I am communicating with a rep from Nolting. I will let you all know what I decide on.

You can always do a small piece on a large frame. You generally set up the frame for the largest quilt you are likely to want to do; you can do that size plus anything smaller.

Dont get a short arm machine. Threading, bobbin, etc. are a big hassle when on a long arm table.
I have an Imperial table and the rods are not sturdy and way to big around. The ends are not going to last long for adjustments. It took an expert from the shop 6 hrs to put it togather. It took way to many screws.
Get at least an 18 in throat machine.
I do like my carraige, it moves very smooth. Now I need a bigger throat machine, just cant afford it.

Another consideration is if you like end to end designs such as pantographs (aka pantos) you will be extremely limited in your design choices with any throat smaller than 18".

I bought a used mid arm 4 or 5 years ago a Phaff Grand Quilter 1200, user friendly, a workhouse, I take it in to the ER once a year for maintenance and service, clean it often (get the fuzzies out of the bottom) and have been very pleased with it. Paid $2500 at that time for the full set up.

delma

Opinions on the Nolting Fun Quilter...maybe a 17 on a 12' frame with stitch regulator??????? Input please!

Correction.......The one i am looking at is a 20".

For the price of the Nolting package (with frame and stitch regulator) you should consider an Innova. IMHO you get a lot more bang for the buck. But you may not have a dealer near by. I love my Innova and I have yet to come across a dissatisfied Innova owner. We all LOVE our machines.

Made in the USA (Texas) and manufactures all their own add ons so everything works together exactly the way it should. Even their frame is custom to their machine.