Loops and birds nests on backing of Avante
 

Hello! I could really use some help. For 3 days I've been trying to use a pantograph. I'm able to sew and everything sews beautiful for a while but then the thread starts making random loops and progresses into birds nests. The thread is not coming out of the tension disc or spring. We started using a net and my MIL who I share the machine with came over to watch the top thread as I sewed and could find nothing getting stuck while sewing. This is something that happens after I've been sewing for a bit and not in the beginning. Any ideas of what would make the upper tension change while sewing before the dealer comes out? I'm using Omni on top and Sofine in the bobbin. Thank you!

I am assuming you have unthreaded and rethreaded making sure everything is threaded right. I am assuming that the loops and bird's nests are on the back of the quilt or on they on the top? Does the loops and nests occur when you are moving in a certain direction or do they occur only in a certain position...like at one end of the quilt, the middle or near the back of the take up roller.> Is this something new. Size of needle.? It is helpful to know the specifics so we can give you some hibts,

Hi, It is only happening on the back. I can tell something is off though because it will start to sound funny. The top thread looks wonderful. Yes, we have rethreaded multiple times and after we rethread it it goes back to sewing fine for a while and then the loops will start happening again. Every time after this happens the thread is still in the tension disc and spring. We've used new bobbins at 180 with So Fine. I'm using a panto that has constant changes of direction so it's hard to tell if there's a particular direction. It has also happened all throughout the quilt so no specific place. Thanks for your reply!

Also, yesterday I was able to go almost 2 rows without it happening but it eventually did again. Same tension, same bobbin, no changes and top and bottom were great until that point.. Thread was still in tension disc and spring.

Are you using prewound bobbins or are you winding your own? When I have issues like that I wind a new bobbin using a different bobbin, I change my needle, rethread my machine, and give it a good cleaning and a drop of oil, and start sewing on a scrap till I’m confident my issue has been fixed. What machine do you have? I also use the same thread top and bobbin.
I’m sorry your having issues, someone with far more experience is sure to stop by and offer better advice.

Thank you Lisa. I have an Avante and we are winding our own bobbins. We bought some Magna glides for the first time and was thinking of trying those with the Glide thread on top which we've also never used but keep reading great things about. Right now I have Omni on top and Sofine in the bobbin. My test pieces look great and have no issues starting to sew. Rethreading fixes the problem until it happens again. Only happens after sewing for a bit.

Does this happen with a different pantograph?

Have you used this one before?

Are you able to slow down the speed of your machine?

Please disregard if these don’t relate to your machine.

I had a similar thing happen with my Nolting. My issue was the thread looked like it was still in the tension properly but it had jumped loose. The birds nest underneath was a mess. We oiled the tension and my husband used a piece of thread to floss the tension just in case a thread piece was in there. We didn't see anything. I rethreaded and everything worked fine. I was using Glide thread in the top and bottom.

I was going to say the same thing that Barb in LA said--when I've had this problem it is usually the top thread popping in and out of the tensioner discs. Doubt it would cause that big of mess on the back, but it could be that the bobbin backlash spring is needing replacement. Good luck--can be soooo very frustrating!

HI Rhonda, this is my first time using this pantograph. I finished a quilt right before this with no problems using swirls. This pattern has a lot of curves and turns so I am going slow.

Hi Barb, I keep thinking this has to be it but every time we check it is snug in there. We keep rethreading and it works great at first but eventually starts doing the loops.

Thank you! We bought a new bobbin holder so it has anew spring in it and it is still doing it.

Is your frame square?
K

The quilt is definitely square, the pins all matched after loaded. It is definitely not level though because my floor isnt level and we have to move the frame to use pantos.

Sometimes there is the tiniest piece of thread stuck in the bobbin case area. I've had this happen and carefully checked the area and tweezed out the bit of thread and solved the problem. Hope you can resolve this problem because I know how frustrating this can be.

Thank you Jackie! I will check again.

I had a weird tension issue, turns out there was some thread built up behind the shuttle (the part the bobbin case goes in to). It caused the shuttle and bobbin case to protrude just a fraction more than it should, and it caused the upper thread to sometimes catch on the case instead of sliding over it, and I'd get a big loop/rats nest on the bottom. I'd change the bobbin, and it would sew fine for a few minutes and then I'd start having the problem, first I found globs of thread on the back, and it finally got worse enough that it would break the thread when it happened.

Like you, I checked and double checked the upper thread path and tension, and could find nothing wrong with the upper thread path or tension.

I was really stumped and about ready to haul the machine in (I have a 24" HQ Fusion). I was looking with a flashlight down in the bobbin area and noticed just a tiny bit of thread sticking out way back, and I started pulling with tweezers and then using dental picks and got a seriously large wad of thread out from behind the shuttle. After that was removed, it sewed fine.

Since then I've gone to using a small vacuum to clean the bobbin area - I was being very diligent with a brush every bobbin change and it still happened.

I really wish we had a "LIKE" button, because I would give one to Cathy aka Macybaby. I have had issues in the same area. Long arms are a constant learning experience. Thank goodness we have all the folks that share their experiences to help others. Once, it was a tiny piece of thread in the thread path. Hubby ended up opening up the top to find that one.

Edited to add: My older Nolting likes a not so tight quilting platform. When I have had the quilt sandwich loaded too tight, it gave me a similar problem with throwing a thread tantrum. Took me a while to figure that one out.

Just another two thoughts. Have you tried using a larger needle.....with all the tight turns maybe you are getting some needle flex which may make the alignment of the needle and bobbin thread slightly off causing a next or loop. This was happening to me when my timing was just slightly off on my sit down machine....when my needle flexed just a bit...it caused a mess...took a long time for the tech to figure out my timing needed an ever so slight adjustment....while my problem was related to my timing....needle flex could also cause this so try a slightly larger needle and as it is stiffer, it may not flex as much...I don't really know just a suggestion. Also, as you have to move your frame on an uneven floor..check and make sure that the distance between the quilt top and the backing and also between the machine and the quilt top is consistant. I think the avante has a leveler bar so it should be consistent but perhaps if one leg is sitting lower it can be off.....I used to have a midarm machine where when I advanced the quilt, the quilt sandwich would tilt as more quilt accumulated on the take-up bar.....and if I did not properly manually level the top after each time I advanced the quilt, it made a mess with loops and nests as I approached the far side of the quilt top because of the increased distance. Sure glad I got my APQS Lucey, few problems over-all the solve...

Leah, did you get figured out what was causing problems? I know how frustrating this can be, so know we're all there for you! on my old Gammill this problem is 9 x out of 10 because top thread is jumping out of the intermediate tension discs. When I changed the way I thread it (video on Gammill's website ) where I but the looped thread end thru the guide and around the tensioner and then over the bobbin count wheel so basically can not jump out. I had this problem with the first time I used Glide and swore it meant I couldn't use Glide---glad I figured it out. I've also found that sometimes just a complete detailed cleaning and oiling makes everything work. Keep us posted!

Another thought. Have you oiled your tension? I never thought to and it wasn't on any of the instructions I had for my machine. In that instance my top thread kept breaking after a knot was sewn between the bobbin and the needle. I had cut the knot out several times and knew something had to be done. Then I remembered that one of the top quilters in the country, wish I could remember which one, said on a blog that she soaked her thread cone in oil before she started quilting. I got to thinking about that and realized my thread might not be sliding through the tension properly. I oiled the tension and the problem was fixed. And the tensioner didn't oil my quilt at all.

Thank you Cathy, it was funny because the dealer came out today and while she was testing it, a snippet of blue thread just appeared on the quilt top from the last quilt I did. Its amazing where they hide out and I have no idea how it just appeared. It looks like a part that is near the bobbin hook assembly was out of place. They fixed it and I was able to finish my row with no problems. I won't know for sure until tomorrow when I try and finish it but I am very thankful for you sharing that and will pay extra attention to that area and threads and lint.

Thank you Barb that is really interesting. No, I haven't heard of that but will look into it.

Sometimes it just helps to turn the needle slightly to the right. Also the tension spring can get a grove worn in it and need to be replaced. I'm pretty positive we're not supposed to oil the tension or the thread on a Handi Quilter. You can use a silicone spray on the thread, but only if it's an ornery thread, and very sparingly. Black thread is more ornery than lighter colored threads, because it has been dyed more than once. The arm that the thread goes under, just after it comes out of the tension, can be twisted slightly to hold the thread from jumping out of the tension.

Good Luck to You!

Change the needle, clean out the bobbin area, oil, and try again. Did you adjust the tension for the top thread?