Question on Judge's Comments
 

At our local quilt show last month the judge completed an evaluation sheet on each quilt. My quilts were entered in the "Pantograph Form of Quilting" so obviously I followed the pantograph. The judge commented on all of them that they should have had "more quilting."

Isn't the amount of quilting a personal choice? And isn't following the pantograph enough? Especially since the category was pantograph?

I think I was penalized unfairly and that they should have judged on the quality of the quilting.

Any thoughts?

I would contact the show committee. Ask what the class was judged on. Did the judge feel the pantograph should have more quilting per square inch? Were you being judged on just the pantograph work, or was the suitability of the pantograph for the quilt taken into consideration? Remember all judging is influenced by our own likes and dislikes, but there are usually written standards someplace. Just reread your post. If judge marked ALL the quilts with the same comment about needing more quilting sounds all exhibiters were in the same boat.

Quilt shows are a finicky thing. Something to keep in mind when entering your work - the judges have to find something "wrong" per say to determine a winner for each category. Does it mean your quilt was a flop? Absolutely not. It sounds kind of negative at first...but really...it's just the result of process elimination to determine the highest quality of work in that category based on what was entered. Does that mean your quilt was not high quality? NO! Absolutely not! When you have two fantastic quilts...how do you determine which one wins? You have to find the "flaw" or something that separates the two so that a winner can be determined.

That being said - you and I can look at two different works of art and see different things. Even certified judges who've gone through extensive training use some scope of personal opinion when judging. I mean, it just is what it is. You can be a good judge and be as objective as possible...but some judges look for good bindings and while others have bindings less on the radar than quilting...so no matter what show or who judges it, there is some element of "opinion" in there.

The best thing to do IMHO? Take it with a grain of salt. Listen to the comments with an open mind and decide for yourself if the comments will benefit your future work or not. Do not take it personally. Really. That is SO much easier said than done, but remember, the BEST quilters who've won tons of ribbons and awards have received less than glowing comments at one point. :)

Congrats to you for putting your work out there - that's the biggest hurdle!

Sorry you feel bad about your quilt. Don't let that stop you from entering. I had one quilt that got so many negative comments from four judges at a show that I probably should have burnt it. LOL. But that same quilt won Viewer's Choice! I knew everything the judges said was wrong with it before I entered it but wanted to enter something. I didn't enter to win.

Some judges really have built in quilt bias. I worked with a judge at our local fair where there were some outstanding quilts entered. If the quilt had a pieced back or the quilter had seamed the quilt back down the middle, she automatically set it aside and didn't even look any further. She also had a strong personal preference for pastel colours and almost shuddered at the lime green, purple, charcoal gray combo which was absolutely gorgeous and had been the Judge's choice at our quild quilt show. New show, new judge, entirely different results. Keep entering!

Judges are just human. I've judged sewing shows and county fairs. If a judge doesn't write enough, people are upset. They want to know how to improve their work. If a judge puts too much people think they are being picked on. And every judge has their own ideas about what and how something should look. It sounds like this judge thought a quilt should have more dense quilting and kept that standard the same for all the quilts. Another judge might think there was too much quilting. At least the judge was consistent.

Judging is not as easy as most think it would be. As someone else said, they have to find things wrong in order to decide which item should be marked as 'best'. Which 'wrong' thing is worse than another 'wrong' thing? The audience needs to feel that the one selected as 'best' is reasonable as well. Sometimes the reason one quilt ranked higher than another is because of something that isn't glaringly obvious.

Don't let this experience stop you from entering another judged event. Every experience is a learning one and your quilt is a loved one. Isn't that the reason we all quilt? We want a loved item that will give warmth and comfort. Every quilt is a winner when that criteria is remembered.

Shelbie ... Unfortunately many of our local Fair Judges are far from qualified to do such. Yes, they take the OAAS training. However, many know nothing else beyond that and I am not even sure they even remember what they were trained about at the schools. I know one "respected" OAAS Judge, who has never made a quilt!! And another one who admits her specialty and true interest is towards preserves, and yet she judges quilts. Interesting eh? :) I'm not saying these Judges are good ... or not so. Though, from some of the comments I have had on my entries, I sure wonder!!!!! I surely have a full jar of salt as a result!! ;) ...... I won't even get into the politics of the of it all.

Sometimes I think that the name of the Judge(s) should be posted for some accountability!!
So often, we never have a clue as to whom it was.
Sometimes I have asked and been told. Most times, I know they know, and just go cold and clam up! L)


AudreyB ... as already said, take what you wish from any Judges' comments. Despite their supposed neutralities, personal opinions definitely do come into play ... they can't help but! After all these Judges are human! :) Were there no other comments made, other than the need for more quilting? Unfortunately, we never get a chance to talk to the Judge ... or to ask the questions that are left unanswered ... or to defend our rationale or trainings on such. Don't let it defeat you, quilt on and keep showing!!!!!!!!!! :)



One comment that was said to me by oneoof the Judge's helpers at a show, was that unfortunately, we never get to see the backs of the quilts ... they often tell you why a quilt wins, or does not! Apparently some at that show were outright horrid on the back, yet the fronts were impeccable!

Judges have their own prejudices just as we do. Fortunately, the same judge does NOT judge all quilt shows. Look at your quilt and see if your spacing may have been a factor.

A different view that you might consider.... Personally, I would take the "needs more quilting" comment as a suggestion that perhaps a different panto would have been more appripriate for your quilt(s). Some pantos are extremely open and not suitable for all quilts from a design and/or construction standpoint. The pairing of quilting and piecing is an art in itself and a skill that takes practice.

I wouldn't dismiss the comment as mere opinion or bias on the part of the judge. Good judges select an area for constructive comment that will help the entrant improve and grow their skills. Whether you local judge followed that standard is only a guess, but the comment has value regardless.

The 'norm' for judge's comments is several good remarks and one 'room for improvement' remark, so without knowing what other comments you received, we can't tell at all why you feel you were 'penalized unfairly and not judged on the quality of the quilting'.

having a quilt critiqued should be a learning experience. Judges are not out to dis you or make you feel bad or incompetent.

Do some research on the category you were in and ask to have your concerns explained. This should make the judging clear for you.

One time, when doing a panto, I mis aligned the repeat and the following run was a few inches out of place. It made a small but noticeable gap between the runs and thus, I learned to check twice, quilt once!:D

Don't give up on entering quilts, there is so much to learn and enjoy and create. It is all good.
peace

I have never entered any quilts for judging but I did three of my knitted tams at a fiber show. They were all three on display, right in front, but I got nothing but negative comments from the judge. People who were walking around loved them but the judge found fault in my stitches and said that I should not have entered three of them. Although mine were displayed in front for all to see, I didn't win anything and was humbled by the fact that she ( the judge) really zeroed in on my decreased stitches, while saying nothing about the design or pattern they produced. I do think that if that was the pantograph you followed then you should not have been penalized for it. But I am only a quilter and not a judge and thankfully never will be.

Keep in mind that the judges opinion is just one persons opinion and the only opinion that really counts is yours. What one person likes...another one thinks it needs something else. I enter lots of shows and take the judges opinions with a grain of salt. I can always learn a new way to do things and if I like the new way, I will try it but mostly, I make my quilts the way I like them. I am the one who has to live with them.

Quilt shows are very much like dog shows (of which I have more than ample experience) in that they are subjective.

Each judge has their own interpretation of what a quilt should be. The judge should take into account the category entered as well as technical knowledge of all aspects of quilting. Additionally, because they are human, each judge is also going to have their individuality they will bring to the judging table.

Their individual likes and dislikes are probably based on their own experience quilting and having their own quilts judged. If they executed perfectly mitered bias binding, they will likely expect the same from you. If they consistently had difficultly with clean edges to their small appliqué yet find a quilt that excelled in this area, they might give that quilt more credence than others.

The same happens in dog shows and as a former educator of future judges I began each seminar by reminding the judges that they ARE human, that we fully expect them to be individuals in their judging process and each of them was going to have specific virtues and faults etched in their psyche that they would not be able to ignore when judging dogs.

This is the very nature of subjective judging. There is no stop watch to mark, no line to measure, and no goals to count.

Applaud the nature of subjective judging because it promotes individually and creativity, but at the same time don't let the opinion of one judge change YOUR vision of perfection. It's just different than this one particular judge.

Exactly what I was thinking.

IMO, the amount of quilting is absolutely a matter of choice. As long as there were not big gaps between stitching, he/she was dead wrong. And I'd enter a protest.

Question remains, why is the density of the quilting a factor in determining who's quilt is best? Only the judge's personal opinion, nothing more.

One of us misread the original post. I do not see where the poster felt bad about her quilt! Only that she questions the judging.

I just take it as fact now. If you expect to win at a bigger show you have to quilt the #$#% out of the piece.

Well said, Pumpkinpatchquilter!!!!

A judge is there to give her or his opinion. That's all it is. My last quilt show review, the judge said something like my quilting pattern should have tied in with the quilt piecing. I had done an overall pattern because I wanted the pattern to shine not the quilting. Guess what, now the judge is gone and I'm still happy with my quilt. You can't delve too deep into a judge's comments, it's personal opinion and that's all. Next time, it can be totally different.

Opinions are like belly buttons, Everyone has one. Judges are like the rest of us. They have biases, they have ideas as to what they want to see. Remember, no matter what any judge says, there are NO rules in quilting. If you can gain something from their opinion, then fine try to do better, if not don't lay awake nights wondering how you made such a failure. Someone will absolutely love your quilt and think of you when they snuggle up in it so it's really perfect after all! Some judges have taken classes to be judges and some are just people who are quilters (?)) like the rest of us and really have no credentials at all.

Unfortunately, quilt judging is very subjective. There are no black and white rules to follow.

Haha! I haven't entered before but I do keep in touch with the trends.......exactly what I have noticed!

Thank you QuiltE! And thanks to pumpkinpatchquilter and nana-up-north! This had been so educational, really! I had no idea of all the intricacies, politics,etc, having never entered any of my quilts. I think about it off and on and then never do. Although I know that was not your intentions here but I think it has convinced me not to, lol! But I also understand and agree with the comments regarding the difficulties for the judges and trying to please everyone. I have no doubt it could be a thankless job. I am too sensitive and think I will continue to quilt for my own pleasure and enjoy seeing all of the beautiful competition quilts. :)

We have a quilt show coming up this February and I'm excited to go. No I'm not entering anything. I do know of one individual who was a judge at the last one. A couple of judges were giving some well said and deserved praises of one of the quilts. When I found out who the judge with the last word was, I was not surprised she gave a big hands down of honorable mention and had to be strongly talked into it. This judge had a run in with the quilt maker a few years back. The judges way was always the right way, even though the quilter's thoughts were opinions and it didn't matter the subject. I found out this judge was no longer to judging quilts this time around. This judge was so biased it wasn't funny. She just happens to be a very unhappy person. She was critical to the point of being condescending and mean. She told one quilter "I don't know who your quilting mentor was but you either didn't pay attention or they were a lousy mentor." This quilter was a long time quilter and did beautiful work. Thank God she never paid attention to the judge. She has won numerous awards.

I have had this same comment from a judge, and he also had a problem with me not changing thread colors on each blade of a scrappy dresden plate. The quilted border was part of the design and not meant to be over quilted. By the way, the same quilt took Best of Show at another quilt show.

I attended a lecture some time ago by an NQA certified judge about what judges look for. The handout we received lists these items under the section for quilting (notes in parenthesis are a summation of her discussion of particular items on the list). They may give some guidance to the OP and anyone else interested...or not. Just thought I'd throw them out there for anyone interested. :)

Quilting

Does “quilt-in-the-ditch” stay in the ditch? (the ditch is always the low side, never the high side. Plan ahead when pressing seams as you are piecing the quilt)
Is the amount of quilting consistent across the quilt?
Are all quilting marks removed?
Are quilt stitches even in length? (size is less important than being even)
Are straight lines straight and curved lines smooth?
Do all quilting stitches go through to the back? (are there any tension issues?)
Are starts and stops unobtrusive? (burying knots is the best way)
Are travel stitches invisible?
Is thread color appropriate?
Are quilting designs well chosen? (do they add to the quilt?)
Do quilting designs fill the spaces well?

I've had the same experience, and I agree with you, except for the required stitches per inch for the binding we are using it should be a personal choice. Sometimes I just want to shout "I didn't want more quilting". Would love to know what the judging standards on this issue are.

I entered a Eiffel tower wall hanging some time ago and the only comment on the review was "Have you been there?" Really? What did that have to do with the judging? If you like it then it is a winner!!!!!

If the same comment was made on all the quilts, whats the point?? I'd also contact the "committee" and ask what the heck??

I agree with this! A quilt shouldn't have to be "quilted to death" just because the judge likes it that way.

Dina

Without seeing any of the quilts in question - it is hard to give an opinion on them.

One thing to remember is that some rules were not made just to be picky, but in fact are good rules to follow.

Quilting is meant to hold the 3 layers in position, and if you do not have enough quilting on your piece, the batting can bunch up.

A quilt does not need to be "quilted to death" to win, but the quilting should be adequate for the batting used, and compliment the top. Without seeing the quilts in question, it's impossible to say why the judge said what she did.


Janet

My 'masterpiece' quilt has a large swirly pantograph quilted on it done by check, and I absolutely love what she did. Would I probably get the same comments on it, since it is not closely quilted, but it is closer than the batting requires, so I think it is fantastic. Others opinions are just that, THEIR opinion, and they are entitled to it, but that don't make my quilt any less precious to me, and yours are just as amazing to you. You are the only opinion that counts on your artwork. If they all have the same comment, it sounds like the judge did not have very much imagination....

Audrey is my sister, and I was just at her house, so I took a few pictures so anyone interested could see the quilting. I took several pictures, but not sure how well the quilting actually shows up.

Dina

Hello, it's me again. Thank you all for reading my post and taking time to give me your thoughts.

I am not unhappy with my quilts. I think they are great and I wouldn't change anything. I know there are tighter pantographs available, but I am not a fan of the tightly quilted pieces. I like my quilts to be soft and not stiff. The quilting was within the requirements of the batting and the stitches were even (stitch regulated). I was surprised that in the category of "pantograph quilting" that the density was more important than the actual quilting.

I spoke with the quilt show committee, and I agree with myself (I was the quilt show chairperson). l have been quilting over 20 years, have entered numerous local quilt shows, and am a respected quilt teacher in my area. I even won several ribbons at the show. As the committee chair, I saw the evacuation sheets for all the quilts, and all the quilts in this category had the same comment.

I just found it offputting that the judge used criteria for a category other than the category the quilt was entered in. The judge did offer positive comments on the piecework and the binding, so all is not bad. The quilt show committee divided the categories by quilting methods to allow the quality of the quilting and the piecework to be the focus of the comparisons. The three main categories were: quilted by domestic machine, pantograph, and custom.

I realize the judge is only human and that personal opinions weigh a lot. I was concerned not only for myself but for the others who entered the pantograph category and received the same comments. This judge caused other problems and we will not be using her again.

I was looking for the opinions of others, and I got it. Many thanks.

I also judge fairs in my state for open class and 4-H. Sometimes a written explanation of why you did a certain thing can help the judge. A lot of the 4-H judging is done as interview judging with the person who made the article which can help the judge decide which way to go. I try very hard to keep my personal preferences out of judging. I have give best of show to articles I would not want in my house, but the workmanship was wonderful. I also try to give two positives for every negative given. It can sometimes be very difficult to pick the best. Just remember it is one judge's opinion on that particular day. Keep entering. I enjoy looking at them all.

Then there are judges that are very biased . I ran into that at our county fair. They let late entries in . Rules stated absolutely no late entries.
The lady that had the late entries took first place. She was a judge in another category.
Made me want to say to heck with the whole process.
What would you do in that case?

I entered a quilt in our county fair. The rules stated that there were no late entries for any reason. Then the day we took them in --we watched them allow 3 quilts to be entered that were not registered in time. The lady won 1st place--she was a judge for another category.(I wouldn,t have wanted her quilt in my home either.)
It is all political around here I guess. It makes me want to reevaluate whether or not to enter any more.
The worst part was when I called the fair president to talk to him about it--he completely Ignored my call and never even called me back(I had talked to his wife & explained what I wanted to talk to him about).
everyone who saw the quilts that were there said mine was the best one. (a lot of quilters That I know and others I spoke to at the fair.
What would you all do in this case?