Resale, complicated?
 

I have read on another site that some copyright owners of patterns forbid the sale of items made from their patterns. I feel as though I paid for the pattern and I own a copy of it. -- If obvious changes have been made to the design/pattern, does it still apply? there seems to be a rather large GRAY area here ----A raffle or charity auction, etc? Seems a bit unfair to me, I assumed most patterns are public domain -- especially the older ones. And due to the fact the materials were paid for by the maker, it seems a bit unfair to restrict what you can do with it....What's your take?

I agree with you. It use to mean to me at least that a major manufacturer could NOT use the pattern to make a zillion quilts from or even fabrics now but the noose seems to be getting tighter. Why in the world did I pay $8 to $12 for?? is it going to come to a one time use of the pattern??

Copyright infringement has been discussed here several times. Each has their own opinion and then there is the law.

Edited to add: I shouldn't admit this, but I can recreate a lot of patterns using EQ or graph paper....most quilters can. I make changes to them so that I am not using a direct copy of the pattern so that I am not guilty of copyright infringement. Very often I find that the block that is the center core of the pattern is in public domain. Am I breaking the law because I start with their idea but don't end up with it? Who knows? Hope not. I understand not mass producing a pattern, but making one and raffling it, or if someone falls in love with it, letting them reimburse you for your time and expenses should be okay.

too many free patterns out there in cyberspace for me to pay for others.

I can understand if you see a finished project and can recognize it right away, & say "oh, that's a pattern by sew-'n-sew", but I think this is becoming downright ridiculous...

I'm with you there! I hope not either!

Designers can attach any rule to their designs but rules are not laws. Only the copyright law will apply. Funny the rules are always next to the copyright law on the pattern. That is to fool you to think it is part of the copyright. Next door neighbor is an attorney who's firm has a publication company as a client. He gets homemade pie, I get questions answered. LOL

so many patterns are just re-makes. I'll see a log cabin done in red and greens and they call it watermelon delight and are considered the "designer". Why are they the designer?? it's alog cabin. I see this all the time. Unless it's completely new or an applique that they drew themselves, how could they be the designer of the quilt. I don't understand it.

I'm wondering if the noose will stop tightening -- i guess i will have to rely on my own design skills....
I'm afraid to ask does any pattern maker forbid the resale of their pattern??? if the answer is not yet, I think that day is coming, too. There are lots of CDs from the sewing machine makers that aren't allowed to be resold....what next?

that's interesting --thanks for sharing that!

Is there a house available right across the street from you and your neighbor??

;)

love the pie statement :)

I noticed that too, as a matter of fact, a whole lot of designs look like they are infringements! I'm guessing that it's the color placement they are referring to......?

I don't pay for anything that isn't going to be mine when I shell out the money.

it sure will make me think twice or more before i buy another pattern or at least find out about the "resale rules"

I understand a designer not wanting a commercial business from making lots of replicas and selling them. I do not understand not being able to use a pattern that I purchase for quite a lot of money to make two or three for gifts or to be a part of a charity sale. But a bigger issue to me is the message on the selvedges of fabric that it is for personal use only. You would think they should want you to buy lots of fabric and use it for lots of applications. By this kind of limitation they really cut their sales. If I can only use for something for me personally, how much of any given fabric am I going to use? Not much! I am a very honest person and will not cross these lines. Therefore, I do not buy these items. Who iI see so many patterns that are such obvious rehashing. There is nothing unusual or "design worthy" about them.

I think reasonable people understand that a reasonable use of a pattern purchased to create something useful, includes individual resale of the useful item made from that pattern. I think most people understand that they shouldn't set up mass production of items for profit based on someone else's work, without arranging for permission and appropriate compensation. Beyond that, I refuse to worry about it.

I had this come up several months ago...not a quilt but a wedding dress. A friend's dtr is getting married and asked if I would make her dress. The dtr had seen a and tried on a gorgeous dress and her mom was trying to save money. I told her I wouldn't make an exact duplicate of the dress, I could do something similar but it really wasn't going to be any cheaper as it was like 6 layer skirt and lace overlay with beading. I told her IF she could find the fabric it was still going to cost her big $$ and as her dtr is a bit of a bridezilla (I didn't say THAT) and she loved the dress she tried on, I didn't think she'd be happy with anything I did. Long winded way of saying that unless I'm making a dress from a pattern, I won't make an exact duplicate of anything. And even then I usually tweak it a bit.

As I understand it , which may not be accurate, the instructions themselves cannot be copied and resold. Duh!

As to items made from those instructions, those are your creations, not the pattern designer's. After all, you chose the fabric, you did the work to make it.

I would think using a kit would be a decidedly gray area.

Just one more reason I don't do anything from a "pattern" that I might think about selling.

Wonder what "they" will think/do when "their" item shows up in Goodwill after some quilter's demise????

I bought one pattern and the instruction appeared to state that you could only make ONE from that pattern without violating copyright law. Doesn't matter what it says, if you paid for the pattern, the designer got paid for what she was selling, and you can use it to make items for yourself, friends, or even for sale as long as it is not a commercial application. However, I was so disgusted by the whole thing that now if I buy a pattern, i look at the copyright section and if it states some dumb thing like that one, I just put it back on the rack and walk away. If the pattern doesn't sell, what the as designer gained by trying to limit it use. It's an easy way to boycott those who want to sell lyou something and then tell you how to use it. I agree, there are plenty of free ones on the internet for unlimited use.

The battle of the copywright infringment
 

It seems to me if someone is going to be this upset about their quilt pattern they made they would put the quilt in a vault never to be seen or enjoyed by others and stop showing pictures of what they have accomplished here on The Quilting Board, or Pinterest, or any other website. By doing this they would have nothing to worry about then.

I've noticed all the newer quilt patterns out now have been created using EQ. It is too easy to re create the same pattern if you have EQ. Add a sashing, or make a square into a hst and you have your own design. That is how I see most new patterns. Just a tweak on something already created.

maybe someone else can remember where this was at in another discussion but was on here sometime ago and the person said they were an attorney and that no pattern was copyrighted only the persons instruction and they went on to say this is scare tactics that once you buy the pattern it is yours ---I was compare to an apron pattern hope I have remembered this right but maybe someone else has a better answer but think about it most quilt patterns are spin offs

I worked for a needlework store part-time. The owner was very adamant about copyright, as in she would go ballistic if we owned a book of patterns but then we copied a pattern for someone else without them buying the same pattern. I agree that it is important for the independent artists get something for their creations, but it only applies to the pattern.

For the most part the only reason they are so "strict" is for the companies that want to go out and mass produce their products without giving them any credit (or money).

Copyright law only covers the original work (exact fabric brand, material, color, stitches, etc.), it does not cover the ideas or creative process. That's why a lot of software companies and others are going to patents instead. Copyright only lasts the author's life plus 50 - 70 years, so if you can find a pattern older than that, it is public domain. You also can't take something that is public domain and "copy right" it. (I'm going through this class right now for school).

A good rule of thumb is to change the pattern by at least 30 - 50%, most times this is enough to make it unique and one of a kind. PM me if you have any further questions and I will try to be more specific.

Happy Quilting

There is a difference between something having copyright protection and actually being copyrighted. The former is automatic while the latter requires the pattern be registered with the US Copyright Office.
Quilts are legally considered useful articles and do not qualify for copyright registration. It is the design, not the quilt, that has the copyright protection.

The design, not the end product - the quilt, is the subject of the registered copyright. When someone sells a pattern that contains a copyrighted design, they are selling to the purchaser the right to make that article with the copyrighted design. The right of the copyright owner to control what is done with that copy (in this case the pattern) is lost once the pattern is sold or given away.
In Baker v Selden, 101 US 99 (1879), the Supreme Court specifically addressed the issue of whether or not something made from copyrighted information in a book was covered by the copyright on that book. The Court said, "The mere statement of the proposition is so evident, that it requires hardly any argument to support it." The Supreme Court felt the whole idea was so obvious that it took little explanation but it explained it anyway by stating:

A treatise on the composition and use of medicines, be they old or new; on the construction and use of ploughs, or watches, or churns; or on the mixture and application of colors for painting or dyeing; or on the mode of drawing lines to produce the effect of perspective, would be the subject of copyright; but no one would contend that the copyright of the treatise would give the exclusive right to the art or manufacture described therein.

No one can claim that the copyright on instructions on making and/or using an article gives the manufacturer the exclusive right to that article. The Supreme Court then went on to say that is if someone wanted to claim an exclusive right to a product, they needed to apply for a patent, not through printing and selling instructions on how to make the item.

A derivative, a work that has been transformed or recast, must be independently copyrightable. Weissmann v. Freeman, 868 F.2d 1313, 1320-21 (2d Cir.), cert. denied, 493 U.S. 883 (1989). The original copyrighted work must be changed into a new work in some manner. If there exists a registered copyright, that copyright would be on the design on the quilt. Therefore a derivative of the pattern would have to be a new version of the design. Someone using the pattern to make the actual design is not creating a derivative but rather an exact copy as intended by the pattern designer.


In lay terms, no, the holder of the copyright on the pattern cannot claim copyright to the quilt you made from their pattern. Anyone want to guess what one of my research papers in grad school was on?

This is along the same line, but not about quilting: Did you know that in many states, now, that it is illegal to share seeds from your garden?? It is an arrestable, fineable crime to give seeds away, when heirloom seeds are a wonderful resource that the big seed companies are trying to shut down. I don't want GMO seeds to take over. Think it over; we are being handicapped on every side. There are few truly original quilt patterns around; most are variations on a theme.

Thank you for this info

Thank you anunranna that was good info I am just going to have fun and enjoy my quiltmaking and forget all of this stuff and if someone wants to buy one of my quilts I will consider my self lucky Happy Easter

Crazy, isn't it? I can understand if Monsanto comes out with a new patented corn they don't want you growing, saving, and handing out to everyone in the neighborhood. However, heirloom seeds have been passed from generations to generations. I am not by any means supporting big ag, however, I do also understand it isn't just about the money, it's about the prevention of agriterrorism. One nutso breeds a corn with a hidden pathogen, gives out seeds to 10 folks who gives those to 10 folks, etc. Next thing we know there is no safe corn left. Probably why I save my own seeds!

Just like the quilt pattern topic - if Burpee sells you a Big Boy tomato plant, you can't legally propagate that plant or seeds for resale as a Big Boy, but they can't legally stop you from selling the tomatoes off that plant at the farmer's market. You can't sell someone else's pattern but you can sell a quilt made from that pattern.

We have a plant exchange group in our community. We exchange plants but can't exchange seeds. LOL. What a crock. The plants produce seeds, we just grow seedlings and exchange them. That is okay even though it is completely stupid. The reality is we give away seeds among ourselves away from the group.

The most common theme in articles about copyright infringement laws, allow you to make anything from a pattern, however, you need to acknowledge who made the original pattern; but I'm sure there are more specific informational articles on the QB that would explain it better than I just did.

I caught hell from a designer once. I bought the pattern and tweaked it to my daughter's satisfaction for her wedding dress. Posted to a sewing forum and apparently the designer saw it . She was incensed that I took the shoulder pads out and adjusted the pattern, also for using a heavy fabric for an overskirt. However, I wasn't reselling, was for personal use, so I just ignored her.

Don't tell me something HAS TO look, worn, be used as you designed it. If your instructions or design is lacking, I'll simply work around it.

If I don't like darts, I'll remove them. I can draw a pattern for almost any kind of sleeve. Too bad. I'm not claiming the pattern or selling it. Personal use, one item.

If we are not allowed to copy a pattern in a quilt that we made for sale there would be no quilts sold. Think about the double wedding ring, the 4 patch, the 9 patch, all those old time patterns. We would not be allowed to make those and sell them. Something is wrong in Denmark. It just does not make sense. Something is wrong in those who are hollering about their pattern being made and sold. We would have to find out who first designed all these all patterns before we could sell them. It is not possible.

I rarely following the pattern 100%, so, I guess then it's my interpretation of their pattern. I don't sell my quilts, so I guess it doesn't matter too much to me.

I can't see how you are in violation. One person told me that it is not possible to copyright geometric shapes. If so, I am not sure how people can claim copyright. I suppose we should all study copyright.gov. (I think that is the address.)

I, too have found that with EQ I can take a picture and recreate the pattern--and since it is usually just squares, triangles, and rectangles, I don't feel like I'm stealing either.

If it is complicated, like a Judy Neiermeyer, then, no, I couldn't begin to do that kind of thing on EQ. (Maybe someone could, but I'm not good enough yet.)

Even that "wild and goosey" block that a famous quilter designed is basically available on EQ and you can just print it in the size you need as a paper pieced block. The ones that come on EQ6 have 2, 4 and 6 geese in exactly the same layout and hers had 3, but it's pretty much the same block--just the number of geese is different.

Here's the choices that EQ 6 has on the first page of choices: [ATTACH=CONFIG]515736[/ATTACH]

So,change away...even little things and I can't see how the other person can say you took her/his idea.

One thing...just because someone complains doesn't mean that they have right to complain...they could be just making noise.

My understanding of the sewing world is that you can't copyright clothes designs. So your designer friend who was upset--too bad--hope she feels better soon.

And that is where the crux of the problem is. Doing the research to find who made the original pattern can be a pain. Someone in 2012 may have put it on the internet, but how do not know if the "original pattern" was actually in a magazine in 1990?

All I can say this world is getting crazier all the time where oh where are the good old days where every one shared ----the old quilting bees where we shared patterns ,recipes garden seeds or anything we wanted to now it is all about greed and dictatorship and seems we can trust no one it is a totaly different world than the one I use to know

Ultimately, no designer is going to come after the individual quilter who sells a quilt from their pattern or sells the pattern at a yard sale or makes a copy for a friend. They copyright protect their patterns to protect against the mass producer and against other designers. I agree with the others, there are too many free resources out there to pay $8, or evern more, for a pattern to be used once, maybe twice.

thank you for all your input -- food for more thought.....