Question.....can you rip a piece of material to make it square....will it follow the true grain or thread of the material and making it square???

Thank you

I'm not much of a ripper - I rotary cut. I have ripped the starting line, but I don't like how ratty the edge looks and end up trimming it anyway.

About ripping fabric. there is a store here in town that sells fabric by the pound,I have never been there,but a friend of mine went there and made her selections and then went to the "cutting table'' to have them measured out and cut.the girl measures and rips them, my friend about had a coronary,she asked the girl not to do that to cut them with scissors, the sales girls said that is how we do it,my friend repeated her request not to rip the fabric and she did it anyway.my friend turned around and walked out.Now I have heard that ripping is a more accurate way of "cutting" the cloth,I disagree any thoughts?

Actually if it is good quality fabric I will rip for long borders and if I am making a large backing, and it works great. When I started quilting 26 years ago you did that to pull a thread full length of the fabric to make sure you had a definite straight grain. All the fabric stores would do a small cut and then rip. but I only do that for tearing the back or the border.

I'm not sure about ripping. I have heard that it works great and is actually more accurate than cutting.

for large pieces it is more accurate. Just press after you rip. It will tear on the straight.

So! With all this talk about ripping fabric (and, I put my two cents worth in, too <g>) .. I loaded a backing onto my frame to quilt a quilt, and of course ... it was too long, so I figured .... I will just snip it a bit and rip it ... my grandson (14) was helping me pin, and he said, "Are you sure?"
Of course! I wouldn't do it if I wasn't sure ... and, he was quiet while I tore the other end.
Then, I rolled the backing up, (oh, yeah ... I do remember telling the boy that I wasn't sure the first part of my pinning was straight, since I forgot to square it, but I wasn't going to worry about it right now ... I'll fix it later)
Got to the end of the backing, and it wasn't straight ... no problem! I will just rip that!
The boy says: Omakmama ... it still isn't straight, so your ripping doesn't do what you said it would do.
I patiently remind him that we really weren't that sure that the beginning pinning was straight - - the ripping was straight, apparently, the cut edge I just "eyeballed" wasn't straight, and now we know!
I am not advocating my outlook on life (most rules are merely guides and tools) ... but I thought you might enjoy my ripping story.
I do believe on those big pieces, it will tear straight ... the key is: Do it BEFORE you load it on a quilt frame.

Yes definitely do it before putting on the frame. Works great otherwise.

my lqs always tears... they actually did it both directions the other day! i have no problem with their doing it for my fabrics - however, when someone specifically asks them not too - someone here posted that - then they should respect it and not do it - is losing a customer worth taking a few minutes to cut with scissors or rotary cutter? i think the customer is far more important

I have shopped at fabric stores that tear yardages exclusively..and I won't shop at those any more. I know it tears straight on the grain of the fabric, but it just goes against my grain. I bought fake fur at a place that insisted on tearing it... I was left with 3" of unusable fabric because it stretched the knitted backing and distorted it horribly.. just my preference.

I can't imagine tearing knitted fabric. I have only torn cotton. I know polyester, wool, etc has to be cut.

In the 1960's the material places used to rip our cloth at the amount we wanted. Today, with the new fabrics.. stretch is involved. I would not rip for fear of distorting the fabric.

Just me. I agree with others. Can not beat the roto like a pizza cutter tool !!

Good luck.
Ellen

GREAT POINT!
No such thing as tearing any knitted or felted fabric ... if you could even manage to do it, it would tear horribly crooked ...
woven fabric is the key, I guess, eh?

i agree. it tears straight on the lengthwise grain, but not always on the cross grain. and you cannot force it into square no matter what you do. first washing or wetting, it's right back to off-grain on the crossgrain. i always request cutting and if they won't i can't shop there. too much wastage. that's why you always have to square up fabric on the cutting mat before you start measuring. to get rid of that crooked edge.

I have to rethink something here ....
Is the cross grain going from selvedge to selvedge?
And, which is the grain that is the strongest?

the crossgrain goes from selvedge to selvedge.

the crossgrain has stretch in it. that is, if you pull on it and then relax it, it will 'bounce' back into shape. the lengthwise grain has no stretch and i find is easier to rip..

Well, that would certainly explain why my ripping the fabric for my backing didn't tear straight. Thank you for explaining that for me. Tear parallel to the selvedge, but tearing from selvedge to selvedge will cause the fabric to be more wonky. Works for me! Thank you!

As far as I know, they will not be square.

I actually did a little test because of this tread and ripped the long borders for my latest quilt rather than cutting them. I must admit that the pieces were straight BUT there was a lot of raveling and a lot of annoying strings hanging around. Next time, I'll go back to cutting.

I was with my sister when she bought a lot of wool, some big pieces, some small pieces. She is a rughooker. The shopowner ripped the wool, and I was surprised it even ripped! But both ladies said that is how they always do their wool!

I have never seen a store rip fabric but it would go against what I would like. It does seems wasteful to do this and leave a messy edge.

My experience is that in the few places that rip the fabric, I have less waste. I don't know how many times I have had to cut off quite a bit of fabric to get it square. It makes me mad when I end up with less than the yard I purchased, and I would rather deal with the threads. I have a friend that got to the bottom of the quilt she was quilting to discover she was short fabric on one side. She trimmed the top but didn't worry about the bottom. If I remember correctly, she had purchase a 1/4 yard of extra fabric than needed for machine quilting on a frame. Personnally I always buy about about 1/2 yard extra and now this friend does as well.

Some I rip at home (I was raised to rip fabric when squaring it up). My sis almost always rips backing fabric.

If you don't like ripping, then don't shop at Eleanor Burn's tent sales at Paducah. It's all ripped. Quilt shop quality fabric for $3 and $4 a yard, no time to cut with hundreds of customers in each tent. The rippers are fast and efficient. If you want cut fabric then you go to her quilt store there for that and pay more. The store is downtown Paducah., it's not located at the tent area.

i believe that where you pay more, they take the time to cut straight.

if the crossgrain is offgrain and the fabric is ripped in that direction, the rip will also be offgrain. there is nothing that you can ever do to permanently make it square. even if you pull and tug and press it into somewhere-near-true, it will not stay there.

if the rip is offgrain and you fold the fabric selvedge to selvedge, you will have 'ears' sticking out on both ends, which are not doubled and not usable. those will have to be trimmed away. that represents whole inches on each end. on the other hand, if the fabric is offgrain and is cut straight across, there it is. already cut straight with no 'ears'. in either case, if you plan to wash it before you cut, do something to keep the edges from fraying or you'll lose inches anyway. everyone has their favorite method and mine is to sew the two raw edges together, while the fabric is still folded lengthwise, to make a tube. i stay as close to the edge as possible and use a zigzag stitch.
i really hope this helps explain the offgrain question.

EDIT: within the last 25 years i can count on one hand the number of times i have gotten true-grain fabric regardless of price. including upholstery or other home dec or garment fabric. now that most fabrics are being made out-of-country (even by famous mills) this problem has gotten worse.

I have been ripping for over 25 years, with absolutely no problem and l have less squaring after the borders are on. For those that wash your fabric, you get less strings than what you get when you wash. I always press the long strips after I rip. It is just what you are confortable with.

I prefer tearing my lengthwise strips. I usually allow a few threads more to allow for the threads. Once the two or three threads have pulled off, they're done. I press before stitching and the "little fringes" don't bother me. But tearing on the WOF is not always so good. If the fabric has been heatset at the factory off grain, then there is no pulling it back into shape. So I just square off the ends and cut across. I don't look at quiliting as rocket science, so as long as my pieces are fairly decent, I'm happy.

I have ripped for long borders too...can't say it hurt any

I'm a ripper from way back. I WISH my local shops would rip. It seems like every time they cut, it is uneven and ravels in the wash. When I've mentioned that a piece was being cut crooked, the clerk stretched it to match. I just shook my head. If cloth is woven well, ripping will give you an edge that is true. No waste at all.

mp, i think the key words here are 'well woven'. most fabric is not woven straight across from selvedge to selvedge. when i sewed professionally, there always had to more fabric than was 'needed' to account for off-grain.
the thing is that when the weaving is taking place, the front and back rollers must go at the same speed. if the woven fabric comes onto the roller at a different speed than it entered the weaving loom, off-graining occurs. the lengthwise fibres come off the first roller, the shuttle goes back and forth across the lengthwise threads (fibres) weaving everything into fabric. then the fabric comes out of the loom onto another roller for rolling onto a roll of cardboard. if the roller that feeds the lengthwise threads is going at a different speed than the take-up roller, then the shuttle isn't moving back and forth evenly, causing those cross threads to be at an angle, or off-grain. when you rip, it rips at the angle at which it was woven. you can never get it to be straight.

ripping lengthwise is always fine. they just go happily along at whatever rate of speed comes along.

I tear for the back of my quilts. I always use cottons and haven't had any problem. they used to always tear fabrics but not many places do that anymore. Or if I am taking a long strip off of one edge. It's faster.

i guess you've been lucky. most places won't rip anymore because it's not reliable. the edge strips always work.

:shock: :?

Good fabric tears across and down (warp or woof). The secret is to tear first, then wash and square. Your drying and ironing should finish the squaring process. If you don't like strings in your washer, take time to zigzag the edges before washing. Usually, what I do is clip the selvage edge, tear both ends, zig zag the two ends together to wash them and finally toss them into the dryer that way. Voila! It is easy to work with and you never have to fear whether your quilt or your garment will "sit" right. Have you ever had a pair of jeans or kaki pants that were not cut on the square? Those are miserable to wear with seams snaking around your legs.

There has to be something seriously wrong with a piece of fabric that cannot be squared. I have been sewing and quilting nearly 60 years and have never seen one I could not square. (I made my first garment when I was eight).

:) :D

a good test is this:

cut a square of the uncertain fabric. stitch the edges to prevent fraying. PRESS TO MAKE SQUARE. FORCE IF NECESSARY. make sure it is really square. wash as normal.
then WITHOUT forcing, press and check the squareness again.

i think you will find that the fabric has reverted to the direction in which the grain began.

Cotton rips true, but blends don't. There are some oriental stores outside the beltway in DC and they all tear the cottons, but they cut the laces and fancies.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

we'll have to agree to disagree. i just came from my workroom, where i tore a 3-1/2 yard piece into 1-1/2 yd and 2 yd pieces. good quality kaufman fabric. when i lined up the selvedges, in order to eliminate the wrinkles at the fold, i lost over 1-1/2" on each piece, each end. if i had cut before i washed, i would have all wonky squares. if it had been cheap fabric, who knows.

so, who knows. :roll: :roll:

I think the "old" woven cottons could be "squared" by tugging and pressing.

Some of the newer ones seem to have a permanent memory for how they were processed - so even if "squared" at one time, they revert to being "off" when left to their own devices.

What I'm comfortable with now:

I buy 100% cotton fabric - I've gotten great fabric at WalMart, and great fabric at LHSs. I've also gotten some PERMANENTLY off-grain Kaufman
fabric at a LQS. (Where the clerk told me that it would straighten out after being washed. NOT)

I overcast the ends before washing to minimize raveling. I use either a narrow, long sigzag stitch on my regular machine or a long stitch, narrow width overcast with my serger.

I soak in hot water, wash gently in warm or cold water, and dry on permanent press.

If it's fairly smooth when I take it out of the dryer, I just fold it and add it to the stash. (Nice fabric). If it's horribly wrinkled when it comes out of the dryer, I'll probably not use it.

I'll iron/press it before cutting it. MANY times the ends are uneven when I fold the fabric from selvage to selvage (and have the fabric lay smoothly) because the threads have gone to whatever their "normal" position is.

I now look at grain lines carefully before purchasing. Sometimes they will straighten out. But if the fabric design is off-grain, there is no changing that.

I will only tear for backings. Sometimes there will be up to an inch of puckering on the torn edges.

THANK YOU. you expressed that much better than i did. and i'm glad (well, not really GLAD!) that someone else has had that experience so no one thinks i'm crazy. and i have had that experience with some of the top manufacturers, so i know it's not just cheap fabric.

i also finish off the edges, whichever way i feel like at the moment. sometimes zigzag, sometimes i sew the edges together. i wash in the hottest water to get all shrinkage and grain twisting over with at once, and dry in the hottest dry cycle. same reason. as soon as it comes out, i lay it flat and hand-press. i trim the overhanging edges and throw any usable inches in my scrap box. no matter how off-grain it now is, it's finished. it will never get worse. when i sew, i starch or size, so the edges, which are now slightly biased, are no problem whatsoever. so i just cut my fabric and sew. with this technique, i have never had a problem.

I guess I could save a step by putting the fabric in the hot wash water right away.

I soak them so I can see how the dye(s) are behaving - and if a piece of fabric has really bad manners, I don't ruin a whole batch of fabric.

I put like colors together the first time I dunk the fabrics. So if there is an issue with the dyes running, bleeding, excess dye - it won't be an issue - I just remove that one and rinse it some more.

I have learned that there are some pieces that WON'T stop spilling dye.
I try to return them because I consider them defective. Sometimes the store will take them back - sometimes not. But i absolutely will not use it.

I don't use dye stabilizers - I figure if ithe dye wasn't fixed by the manufacturing process, my little home rememdies won't help.

I haven't tried them, though, so I don't really know if they work or not.

Comments?

when i buy yardage and first wash in hottest water, i use the lowest level and wash each piece separately. i know i'm using a lot of water, but it's the only way to know which one is the one that might be bleeding. i also use use detergent. what the hey, get it all out in the open before i begin.

after all, which do you want first, the good news or the bad news?

when i buy smaller bits, i BOIL (that's the hottest water) and then let dry. i figure the boiling will do whatever can be done to it.

if i really love something that bleeds, i try again with retayne. sometimes that works. i would use that for a wallhanging. i don't trust it for bedding that will be washed regularly. i never count on things like salt or other home remedies. however i have had reds that never gave up. in those cases, i did.

Whether you get a straight line depends entirely on whether the warp and weft threads were loaded straight on the loom. I will not purchase fabric if ripping is their only way of cutting. Even good quality is off and once you start working with it you can loose inches of it.