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Thread: Question about copyright

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine- View Post
    Why are you asking for legal advice here? I mean, half of us aren't from the your country, and I can't imagine the other half has a clue? If it's something you're that worried about, you really should be asking a lawyer, right?
    NO, it is a good question for here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by woody View Post
    Thanks everyone !!!!!! You really are the most helpful bunch of people EVER!!!!

    Now for the next challenge, actually making it, LOL, this should be fun
    to clarify, copyrights are generally NOT on the design elements, but are on the techniques, directions used to execute the making of the design! Even then, search the public domain blocks and you will find that your element might already be there!

  3. #28
    Junior Member rndelling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine- View Post
    Why are you asking for legal advice here? I mean, half of us aren't from the your country, and I can't imagine the other half has a clue? If it's something you're that worried about, you really should be asking a lawyer, right?
    Kind of a harsh reply. I see lots of questions on here asking about copyright laws and giving credit to the designer so this one doesn't seem out of place to me.

  4. #29
    Senior Member MdmSew'n'Sew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woody View Post
    This is the picture I am talking about Attachment 326575
    That is one amazing design, would love to see how it turns out, I don't think I could even begin to try to replicate that. Please show us the pictures when you finish!
    He who cuts his own wood is warmed twice, but she who makes her own quilt is warmed forever - SLR 11/7/2011

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine- View Post
    Why are you asking for legal advice here? I mean, half of us aren't from the your country, and I can't imagine the other half has a clue? If it's something you're that worried about, you really should be asking a lawyer, right?
    Ouch!! Unfortunately, it's responses like this that make some of us hesitate to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but when the response is this, it makes the one asking feel dumb.

  6. #31
    Super Member woody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garysgal View Post
    Ouch!! Unfortunately, it's responses like this that make some of us hesitate to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but when the response is this, it makes the one asking feel dumb.
    Lucky I have a thick skin, there is so much good advice here, you just got to look on the bright side.
    The biggest risk is the one not taken

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckcowl View Post
    do you for some reason believe a lawyer could not be a quilter? or a member of this board? this board is full of many many knowledgeable people, Lawyers, Doctors, Designers, Authors- there is no reason to not ask the questions here.
    Thanks BellaBoo.....Good answer to an insensitive comment.....I have learned something new today. We have a terrific supportive community of quilters where no question doesn't have merit.........

  8. #33
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feline fanatic View Post
    I wouldn't be overly concerned about it Woody. In most quilt shows they just want you to give credit if you used someone's pattern. There was a big bru-ha-ha about a year ago with McCalls quilt magazine publishing inaccurate info on copyright issues and entering quilt shows. It cause many shows to go into a tailspin demanding quilters who made a quilt from a pattern they did not design themselves get written permission from pattern designers that they could in fact enter the quilt in competition. In fact it caused untold amounts of grief for poor Bonnie Hunter, she was inundated with requests. She finally put something on her website that anyone is free to exhibit a quilt they made using her patterns and to please quit emailing her as it was completely overloading her in box.

    It later came out that McCalls was dead wrong in their article but I don't think they ever printed a retraction. If you enter a show there with a pattern you drafted yourself but inspired from a picture on the net I think that is ample information to submit with your entry application and it is doubtful you have infringed on anyones copyright.
    The following website debunks false information given out about copyright issues. It's called Tabberone's Hall of Shame, which spotlights companies who spread false copyright information.
    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...aftSites.shtml As seen on this page, companies such as McCalls magazine, Etsy.com, Cricut, Provocraft (and many more) get it completely wrong.

    You see, this is a hot button for people who earn a living in quilting. Conversations such as this hurt business. One person who hears gossip from so and so (in this case, the quilt show director who invented a ridiculous rule that has nothing to do with true copyright law). The rule requires innocent people to perform the equivalent of 'go jump in a lake' in order to submit a beautiful quilt that took hundreds of hours to make. Of course they're going to jump in the lake! And those who find jumping in the lake annoying, simply skip entering a show completely.

    So where does this lead us? The owners of the lake get tired of telling people to quit jumping in the lake, so they put up fences (I.e.: ignore emails asking for permission to jump in the lake.) And if the innocent people go public, disheartened because they can't get permission to jump in the lake, it gives the owner a bad reputation, which is completely undeserved. People stop buying quilt patterns, the numbers of quilts entered in shows dwindles down to only women who are artistic enough to create their own patterns (I'm not one of them, by the way) and the industry suffers, especially the pattern designers who so graciously share their talent with the rest of us!

    While your innocent question could have received a more thoughtful response from me (and I apologize for not trying harder) I hope you can see why questions about copyright issues are mind boggling even for the 'experts'.
    Last edited by Christine-; 04-11-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  9. #34
    Super Member GrannieAnnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathleenq View Post
    my understanding is traditional blocks cannot be copyrighted. Like Triple Rail, for example
    Yet we have links to sites that insist the owners OWN those rights. @@
    Bad Spellers of the World
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  10. #35
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    I attended the Mid-Atlantic quilt festival in February and noticed there were far fewer quilts than the last time I was there. The last time the quilts seemed to never end! Quilts were squeezed into every spare inch and it took hours to view them all. I came home with 300+ photos, and even then I only took photos of quilts I liked.

    This year, part of the convention hall was simply empty. Huge empty spaces. After I walked through the wallhanging entries I said, 'where are the rest of them?" It was still a very good quilt show, but I was a little disappointed in the number of quilts. Especially after knowing what should have been there. After the McCalls magazine article, could it be that quilters simply threw up their hands and said "Forget it!" We'll never know, probably, but it would be interesting to know if other quilt shows had reduced numbers in quilt entries.
    https://quiltdasher.blogspot.com

    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Hinterland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine- View Post
    This year, part of the convention hall was simply empty. Huge empty spaces. After I walked through the wallhanging entries I said, 'where are the rest of them?" It was still a very good quilt show, but I was a little disappointed in the number of quilts. Especially after knowing what should have been there. After the McCalls magazine article, could it be that quilters simply threw up their hands and said "Forget it!" We'll never know, probably, but it would be interesting to know if other quilt shows had reduced numbers in quilt entries.
    I don't know why there were fewer quilts at Mid-Atlantic, but that show does not require permission from the pattern designer. They do require that you appropriately credit the designer and quilter if needed...and that's something I believe should be done.

    Janet

  12. #37
    Super Member amandasgramma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scissor Queen View Post
    A fairly simple geometric design in itself probably can't be copyrighted. Imagine what would happen if somebody had copyrighted a square.
    I'm in agreement. I know of people that put copyright on anything and everything they post or do. It doesn't mean a thing. In fact, I know a woman that puts copyright on the web sites she creates......and it doesn't mean a thing. She said it just stops people and they believe it. As for copyrighting any designs in the quilt world....very few are unique.
    Dee


    "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing." by George Bernard Shaw

  13. #38
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    An acquaintance was the sister of a Disney copyright attorney. She told me he laughed when he heard the rumor-mill was churning again with stories of the little old lady who was sued by Disney for selling baby clothes she made with Disney licensed fabric. He joked 'big bad Disney' was at it again, which of course meant the story was hogwash.

    I learned from the Tabberone website that some business people knowingly post incorrect copyright information at their businesses because it makes most people do what they want. Even if it's saying "when you buy my pattern you can only make 2 items that are for sale". Hogwash!

    I'm thankful for people like Tabberone, it's so nice to see someone setting things straight.
    https://quiltdasher.blogspot.com

    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  14. #39
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    Exclamation

    I am interested in making quilts for resale and a former legal secretary so copyright law was important for me to nail down. After extensive Internet research I have learned 1) it is infringement if you make a paper copy and give it to someone else to use. 2) it is infringement to sell a quilt made from a pattern without the creator's permission. 3) the presence or absence of the copyright symbol does NOT negate infringement. It is a simple matter to contact the creator and get permission. I now check with the creator for permission before purchasing patterns. Most have given permission, but some have declined which is their right. I just don't buy their patterns. It was suggested when doing show and tell at a guild it would be nice if you gave the creator of the pattern credit along with the long arm quilter if one was used. 4) A quilt pattern is intended for you to make for your personal use unless stated otherwise. If the creator really wanted to push it and was aware you made 5 quilts from the pattern and gave them to family members it would be infringement. If you kept all 5 at your house for their use it is not infringement. However, I would think this unlikely. 5) I also just learned it is infringement if you donate the quilt. So now I need to contact the creator of the pattern of a quilt made in a class because I intended to donate it for a raffle to benefit our local volunteer fire department. Now I will be asking about this when taking classes. Life is complicated when you try to follow the rules isn't it.
    Cheryl Robinson
    http://www.silverneedlestitching.com
    APQS Millenium Longarm with Intelliquilter

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  16. #41
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Silver Needle;5132828]I am interested in making quilts for resale and a former legal secretary so copyright law was important for me to nail down. After extensive Internet research I have learned 2) it is infringement to sell a quilt made from a pattern without the creator's permission.

    And you're dead wrong on this one. Silver Needle, I've been to your website and I've been in your shop. (I was born and raised in Ames.) You have a faaaabulous business. You are well-intentioned, and I know you take this stand because you have many pattern designers who sell patterns through your shop. But you're still wrong! There's a little law called "First Sale Doctrine" that applies to your false statement. Please see the following website for an explanation why your statement is false:
    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...aftSites.shtml
    Last edited by Christine-; 04-11-2012 at 09:08 AM.
    https://quiltdasher.blogspot.com

    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  17. #42
    Super Member Scissor Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Needle View Post
    I am interested in making quilts for resale and a former legal secretary so copyright law was important for me to nail down. After extensive Internet research I have learned 1) it is infringement if you make a paper copy and give it to someone else to use. 2) it is infringement to sell a quilt made from a pattern without the creator's permission. 3) the presence or absence of the copyright symbol does NOT negate infringement. It is a simple matter to contact the creator and get permission. I now check with the creator for permission before purchasing patterns. Most have given permission, but some have declined which is their right. I just don't buy their patterns. It was suggested when doing show and tell at a guild it would be nice if you gave the creator of the pattern credit along with the long arm quilter if one was used. 4) A quilt pattern is intended for you to make for your personal use unless stated otherwise. If the creator really wanted to push it and was aware you made 5 quilts from the pattern and gave them to family members it would be infringement. If you kept all 5 at your house for their use it is not infringement. However, I would think this unlikely. 5) I also just learned it is infringement if you donate the quilt. So now I need to contact the creator of the pattern of a quilt made in a class because I intended to donate it for a raffle to benefit our local volunteer fire department. Now I will be asking about this when taking classes. Life is complicated when you try to follow the rules isn't it.

    You got exactly one right. I don't know where you got most of this but somebody has fed you a line of **.

  18. #43
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Needle View Post
    4) A quilt pattern is intended for you to make for your personal use unless stated otherwise. If the creator really wanted to push it and was aware you made 5 quilts from the pattern and gave them to family members it would be infringement. If you kept all 5 at your house for their use it is not infringement. However, I would think this unlikely.
    This is another one where you're dead wrong. Puh-leeze read this website:
    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...aftSites.shtml

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Needle View Post
    5) I also just learned it is infringement if you donate the quilt. So now I need to contact the creator of the pattern of a quilt made in a class because I intended to donate it for a raffle to benefit our local volunteer fire department. Now I will be asking about this when taking classes. Life is complicated when you try to follow the rules isn't it.
    This is another one where you're dead wrong. Puh-leeze read this website:
    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...aftSites.shtml

    I'm glad you posted Silver Needle, I hope this helps ease your worries! Life gets complicated unneccessarily when people take themselves too seriously, in this case it would be one or two pattern designers who invent silly restrictions. I skip buying from those pattern designers as well.
    https://quiltdasher.blogspot.com

    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  19. #44
    Senior Member dixie_fried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Needle View Post
    I am interested in making quilts for resale and a former legal secretary so copyright law was important for me to nail down. After extensive Internet research I have learned 1) it is infringement if you make a paper copy and give it to someone else to use. 2) it is infringement to sell a quilt made from a pattern without the creator's permission. 3) the presence or absence of the copyright symbol does NOT negate infringement. It is a simple matter to contact the creator and get permission. I now check with the creator for permission before purchasing patterns. Most have given permission, but some have declined which is their right. I just don't buy their patterns. It was suggested when doing show and tell at a guild it would be nice if you gave the creator of the pattern credit along with the long arm quilter if one was used. 4) A quilt pattern is intended for you to make for your personal use unless stated otherwise. If the creator really wanted to push it and was aware you made 5 quilts from the pattern and gave them to family members it would be infringement. If you kept all 5 at your house for their use it is not infringement. However, I would think this unlikely. 5) I also just learned it is infringement if you donate the quilt. So now I need to contact the creator of the pattern of a quilt made in a class because I intended to donate it for a raffle to benefit our local volunteer fire department. Now I will be asking about this when taking classes. Life is complicated when you try to follow the rules isn't it.
    Cheryl--
    Please recheck your facts.
    Patterns are copyright protected. They cannot be copied and given away or sold.
    Once you pay a designer for the pattern, the product that is made from that pattern is NOT copyright protected. You can make 9 billion of the same thing and do whatever you want with them--the designer cannot do a thing about it.
    Utility items like clothes, quilts, etc are not eligible for copyright protection. What is protected are the written words that explain the process and any associated photographs/illustrations. Not the end product!
    Read about it here:
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
    Last edited by dixie_fried; 04-11-2012 at 09:30 AM. Reason: grammar
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  20. #45
    Senior Member dixie_fried's Avatar
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    I'm sorry that it looks like we've all just piled on Cheryl, but that post must have stopped us dead in out tracks.
    It's thinking like this by otherwise intelligent and well meaning people in the quilting world that perpetuate what the pattern companies want the average Jane to think....and to have them keep spending the bucks!
    "And I guess I might have made a few mistakes.
    But maybe that's exactly what it takes.
    To get a little happy in this big sad world..."
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  21. #46
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  22. #47
    Super Member deedum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garysgal View Post
    Ouch!! Unfortunately, it's responses like this that make some of us hesitate to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but when the response is this, it makes the one asking feel dumb.
    I agree with you! Changes the makeup of the board if we become afraid or concerned to ask a question in fear of being
    bit.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine- View Post
    I attended the Mid-Atlantic quilt festival in February and noticed there were far fewer quilts than the last time I was there. The last time the quilts seemed to never end! Quilts were squeezed into every spare inch and it took hours to view them all. I came home with 300+ photos, and even then I only took photos of quilts I liked.

    This year, part of the convention hall was simply empty. Huge empty spaces. After I walked through the wallhanging entries I said, 'where are the rest of them?" It was still a very good quilt show, but I was a little disappointed in the number of quilts. Especially after knowing what should have been there. After the McCalls magazine article, could it be that quilters simply threw up their hands and said "Forget it!" We'll never know, probably, but it would be interesting to know if other quilt shows had reduced numbers in quilt entries.
    this is actually a sign of the time...while in today's world quilter's are faster to make than ever, the quality is often lesser than what most shows require to be in a judge setting. The cost of making, shipping, insuring, etc also set the bar higher than it used to be. Groups are disbanding and taking most of the challenges with them, it is a lot of different factors these days!

  24. #49
    Super Member Christine-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixie_fried View Post
    I'm sorry that it looks like we've all just piled on Cheryl, but that post must have stopped us dead in out tracks.
    It's thinking like this by otherwise intelligent and well meaning people in the quilting world that perpetuate what the pattern companies want the average Jane to think....and to have them keep spending the bucks!
    It's forums like this that help though! I'm glad Silver Needle posted, it gave us the opportunity to bring the issue to light, and point out the false information out there.
    https://quiltdasher.blogspot.com

    I like to make lists. I also like to leave them laying on my sewing table and then guess what's on the list while at the fabric store. Fun game.

  25. #50
    Super Member Havplenty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BellaBoo View Post
    My ignore list of posters is getting longer and longer. LOL

    LOL

    it helps that there are those who try to stay informed of issues effecting quilters and copyright. i have several friends that are attorneys and a brother that is on his way to law school so i have a few people to ask questions of. i helps to be correctly informed and it is okay to say that you do not know something rather than giving incorrect information.
    thanks for keeping this topic relevant as it applies to so many of us.
    Last edited by Havplenty; 04-11-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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