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Thread: what are your thoughts on...

  1. #1
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    what are your thoughts on...

    famous quilter's posting pix of their works in progress on the internet via blogs/Facebook and then entering them in local shows, where of course their piece wins, because it is highly recognizable as being their work!

    Whatever happened to the anonymity of the entries maker for the sake of fair judging?

    I saw this happen at the OKcity show in Jan and was appalled. A well known, semi-famous lady had 3 pieces entered. ONE of them was a piece she had entered in the same show back in 2009 and had won with it! Everyone knows her work just by looking at it, but she travels the state showing them off, so they are nothing NEW when she enters in them a local show. Of course she wins, everybody wants to score points with the famous people...was hers better than the rest, NO they were not!

    I think when a person chooses to share their pieces of work in progress via the internet, then they should avoid entering them in local shows.

    Same with the local fairs...if you have won best of show at Paducah do you really need to enter your work at the local fair?

    Have any of you seen this in your shows?

  2. #2
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    All the time.....It is difficult as a judge to be impartial when we see these quilts and they do get very careful evaluation by me as well as those with whom I judge. The story is told that one quilter who won at a big show where the quilt had to be given up if the prize money was taken, refused the money because the maker could earn more traveling the quilt. Now this is heresay but I saw the quilt in a later show and it didn't win best of show - another great quit did. Another difficult situation is when we see a quilt that has been in magazines where a kit was available.
    How do we judge design when we suspect the design was not the quilt maker's. I once saw a quilt that had been entered in a group category and I recognized the quilt and internally questioned the origin of the quilt. When the signage was added I saw it had been made by the designer and those who had helped her make it. It was the quilt on her pattern book. These are indeed difficult decisions. Quilting is becoming "courisier and courisier".......(did I spell it right). I judged a show a few years ago where in one category there were 8 quilts all made by very well known quilter/designers and when we walked down the row we three judges named the maker. How can you judge such a situation as that. Having said all this.....no one should be discouraged from entering their quilts. It can be a learning experience for the quilt maker. Read the rules and be sure and enter in the correct category and do the best workmanship you can
    Back to the quilt that had been previously entered.....The show committee should write their rules to avoid this. That is the reason some say that the quilt should not have been entered in other shows or made in a certain time period.

    Let me ask this question which came up recently in discussion. If a quilt has been made and quilted by one person but binding had been put on by a second, should it be considered a group quilt?

    Now, while I have the floor so to speak. A few years ago I judged a show that had a large number of very ordinary quilts entered. They were simple designs. Not the "wow" quilts..... and they won ribbons. So, simple is still recognized. Off my box now.

  3. #3
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    Holice I love when you JUMP in..hehehe
    thank you for your words of wisdom.
    I am "learning" to be a quilt judge for our County fairs, but would love to carry that further.

    it is very difficult to judge non-biased when the persons works are so easily recognizable or are published via the internet! Thus stricter rules are being hashed out for this years show entries.

    I have great issues with a person who designs, and pieces a quilt, PAYS the quilter to quilt it and then has to give credit to the quilter!!!....If a person pays for the service to me that is a bought item like the thread, batting etc. Especially if the quilt is NOT being judged on the quilting, but on the design/piecing. SO I would say if a person PAID for the binding to be on, then it was like paying for the thread, and NO I would not consider that a "group" quilt!
    If you go that far, then if the person used a jelly roll that was PRE-cut by someone else, and a store bought binding, would it then also be a Group quilt?

    When does it stop?

  4. #4
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    Oh my word! I never knew so many things went into a quilt judging. I am glad I just do it for fun and use. Teresa

  5. #5
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    If you're judging on design and piecing, then should it not be just a quilt top and not yet quilted? You're judging the workmanship of a quilt, then I think the LA quilter should be included, as it's his/her workmanship that is the quilting, not that of the person that pieced the top.

    JMO, but paying for a skill like quilting is NOT the same as paying for an inert object like thread or binding. We all know that lousy quilting can ruin the looks of a quilt, just as fabulous quilting can make the quilt a work of art....
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

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  6. #6
    Super Member Scissor Queen's Avatar
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    I think what shows people enter their quilts in is their business. Above all else a judge is supposed to judge the quilt on its merits in the category it's entered into without consideration for who the quilt maker is or if they've seen the quilt somewhere else.

  7. #7
    Power Poster dunster's Avatar
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    Oh Charlee, I agree with you! A longarmer deserves to be both paid and recognized. However, if a longarmer is paid, then I don't think she should receive part of any prize money that the quilt wins, unless this was previously agreed. I don't enter quilts in judged shows, so I don't have a lot of wisdom on the subject, but I have served as helper to the judge at the local fair (helping lay out the quilts for the judge's inspection with my mouth firmly closed to keep my opinions to myself). I know that even at the local venue, the judge (from another town) was able to pick out quilts made by the same person, although I don't think she necessarily knew or cared at all who that person was. It seems to me that the judges should have enough integrity and experience to judge a quilt on its own merits, even though they know whose quilt it is. I don't have any problem seeing the same quilt in multiple shows, and I guess it's up to the venue to specify how new the quilt should be and what the categories are. I've heard from many quilters that the quilt's date is the time the last stitch was put in it, so if they want to enter a quilt in a show that limits the years it was made, they just have to take another stitch to make it new. I don't subscribe to that theory. Once the quilt is bound, it's done, and adding something else does not change its completion date.

    I do have to say that I am SO PROUD that one of the members of my small local guild had a quilt accepted into Paducah this year, and that same quilt hung in our local non-judged shows. I can't go to Paducah, but I'm happy I got to see a quilt that is going.

    There is certain basic information I would like to see with all quilts at a show - year made, designer and pattern name if there was one, piecer's name, quilter's name and status (professional or not), equipment used in quilting (by hand, DSM, freehand longarm, computerized longarm). Although I don't really care who put on the binding, I would like to think that the names of all who worked on the quilt in any capacity are included with the entry. But I never thought about someone else cutting the fabrics, as with jelly rolls. I really don't think that's an issue, any more than whether the person used scissors, rotary cutter, or other method to cut the fabric. But wow, so much to think about.

  8. #8
    Super Member Dolphyngyrl's Avatar
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    Also I see the word design alot in here, there are a lot of people who don't design quilts and use patterns and would like to enters show. I think there are far too many rules for this endeavor. I want to enter one of mine, but now I have to think about the designer, the quilter, etc. when I am the one who spent hours piecing, choosing the right colors. I agree, where does it end.

  9. #9
    Senior Member sylviak's Avatar
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    I saw several quilts at the Dallas Quilt Celebration this year that were made from kits. I recognized these from seeing them in Keepsake Quilting catalogs. I guess that's OK, but I felt slightly cheated?

  10. #10
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    I was organizer for 2 community centennial quilt shows with a little over 100 quilts entered in each. We had unusual catagories: most unique, most colorful, oldest, quilt entered from farthest distance, and of course viewers choice and judges choice. Mine were not to be included in judging so I used my grandchildren and several ladies who know nothing about quilting as well as a couple of experienced quilters as judges. AND everybody got a blue ribbon with Centennial Quilt Show 2010, and the ones for 2012 were purple. The special award ribbons were big and fancy and the quilters who won were thrilled because they were not necessarily the best executed and they thought they would NEVER win a ribbon. The quilters that would normally win, I explained to each of them this was a for fun show and we didn't want them to feel they were being overlooked, it just was a fun way for people to experience "winning". The judges choice was won by an exceptional, hand quilted quilt that would win in almost any show.
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  11. #11
    Super Member AZ Jane's Avatar
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    As a new quilter, why would I bother to enter a show. Seems a little "rigged" to me. Is it really a "winner" if it has been to every show around for multiple years?? Thanks but no thanks.
    Better to do something imperfectly, than nothing perfectly.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Dandish's Avatar
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    Of course judging is very subjective. And I think it goes way beyond that, too. There are some folks' work I can pretty much recognize immediately (Patsy Thompson, Edyta Sitar, Sharon Schamber, etc) even without a name being on them. Now, I'm no judge by any stretch, but I think in those cases you would HOPE that a judge is just as objective as they can be, but I doubt they are often successful. I think there's a lot of politics that go into the major shows, too. And personal opinion has to enter it to some degree too. Quilts can ribbon at one show, and receive no recognition at the next. I don't know that I'd ever enter a quilt in a juried show (but, I'd never say never...), but I so far have only entered some in nonjuried shows and really liked it. If you hang around you can generally hear comments and know what people think about it. That's probably enough for me.

  13. #13
    Super Member jemma's Avatar
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    lady elizabeth--you have the right idea- i enjoy my quilting the one thing that spoils it is the politics that abounds in the community--i belive it is my quilt if i design it -sew it+quilt it-yes and bind it--unless i do all of it -i am ethically bound to credit any other paticipant--yes i amaware i cant spell!!!

  14. #14
    Power Poster earthwalker's Avatar
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    Interesting. I know absolutely nothing about the ins and outs of showing anything, but surely if the quilt has won awards before or been "shown" via shows or electronic/print media before; it should be excluded from competition. Maybe well-knowns or professionals with known quilts could exhibit (therefore "advertise" themselves, their patterns and their previously awarded works) but be excluded from the judging. They get their kudos, but amateurs and professionals who have previously unawarded works get a fair chance of an award.

    As some others have mentioned, I think it perfectly reasonable to mention the name/company of anyone who contributes to the work in question. There's many a quilter who can turn an average quilt top into a stunner, purely by picking the right design and thread to bring out it's best.

  15. #15
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    Just my opinion.

    1. as somebody else pointed out, the quilting can change the character and appearance of a quilt completely.

    the same goes for the binding. it's a tedious task and can be difficult to execute. in some cases the binding can improve or ruin the overall look of a quilt.

    i would apply this principle to the design, too. if it wasn't my own design my conscience would demand that i acknowledge the designer and pattern by name.

    If somebody else contributed to the finished quilt, whether paid or not, that somebody else should be given by-name credit. Since they were already paid, then I would not feel obligated to share the prize ... but i would feel obligated to share the credit.

    2. it's up to the coordinators of each event to decide which quilts are and are not eligible for entry. if a quilt is eligible, the quilter should feel free to enter it - be it in 1 show or 100 shows.

    3. fairness and objectivity are issues of character. if a person can be swayed by her/his knowledge/assumption of who made the quilt, that person should not be a judge. at a minimum they should recuse themselves from judging the particular quilt(s) in question.

    a judge should also not feel obligated to discount any eligible quilt based on any criteria beyond eligibility requirements and technical merit. their job is hard enough to do without having to complicate things with "social expectations".
    Last edited by PatriceJ; 03-25-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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  16. #16
    Power Poster ckcowl's Avatar
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    when i enter my quilts locally one of the first rules is....the entry can not have been entered in the past---even at the fair-
    i do show off my quilts here on the board and a couple other places sometimes as they are coming together---never really thought about that having any bearing on them being entered in the local venues- i do not believe that has any effect on the outcome of the show---every one i've ever entered was judged and critiqued according to all of the (guidelines) the judges use- such as workmanship, appeal, balance, ect...not by the fact i made it- or have shown pictures of it on my facebook page. i think as long as rules are followed anyone should be able to show their work- regardless whether or not they have a book out or are well known...the show rules just need to be followed...if a quilt can not be entered that has been entered in the past then...that should be the case...
    hiding away in my stash where i'm warm, safe and happy

  17. #17
    Super Member ptquilts's Avatar
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    If someone is a famous designer/quilter and has a website and publishing patterns and books, making money from it,etc., why do they need the extra adulation of winning a prize? To me it reminds me of when they let professionals in the Olympics. The pros get paid millions of dollars, let the amateurs have the glory of winning the Olympics.

    As far as more than one person working on the quilt, I used to hand quilt for a published designer/quiltmaker and I noticed when the books came out some of the captions would be, "pieced by Jane Smith" (not the author), "hand quilted by Barb" - so all the author did was design it. Not sure how I would feel about that if a quilt like that was entered in a show (as far as I know they weren't).

  18. #18
    Super Member AliKat's Avatar
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    Wow. I hadn't even thought that much about judging quilts. I don't check blogs unless for a particular reason, though I do check websites if I want to know more4e about a designer/teacher.

    I do absolutely know what you mean by those whose quilts are nationally/internationally known. ands ... that is a difficult subject. This how these quilters make their living. I think professional quilters, those who do commision work, etc maybe should have their own category, but have no idea how that would happen.

    Then from there do we consider those who do the LA or whatever work as professional after they win so many shows for their work? Again, that is how they make their living.

    Thanks PatriceJ for your input too.

    This is a very interesting topic and would make a great roundtable type discussion program for a guild, maybe more so for those statewide associations with multiple guilds. Would be interesting to see all the vaariances of though and possible guidelines for categories and entry requirements.

    Thanks for this discussion Jacquie.
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  19. #19
    Super Member Lori S's Avatar
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    Having seen great quilts made by locals get trumped by professionals who have already won many or much recognitions. It is sad that they feel the need to play their quilt like a trump card. I think well written rules regarding the entry or classification can go far in if not eliminating or reducing this from happening. I find the comparision of the olympics amataur vs pro to be spot on. In my day we all called it bringing in a "ringer". Such "ringers" often defeat the intent of the show, and leave a lasting "bad taste" for those who wanted to have a high ethical standard. But unless there is a statement in the rules of submitting works that encompass what is the exeptable submission , then those "trump" cards can hold there head up and say " I have done nothing wrong".
    I have seen many shows that do not allow kit quilts, or at least put them in a seperate category so that in viewing and judging , the value for pattern and fabrics selected are not valued in the judgment.
    I love going to Quilt National , all works must be original , never been shown , or published either via book, magazine , or any media.
    There have been some shows in my area that ,previously judged and shown quilts are allowed in for viewing after a certain number of years , but can not be in the compitition. That way a wide number of quilts can be shown to the public but keeps the judging portion of the show to only new works.
    Last edited by Lori S; 03-25-2012 at 05:31 AM.

  20. #20
    Super Member mhansen6's Avatar
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    Oh my word, I never knew so much went into quilt judging. If I ever enter one of my quilts in a quilt show it would be just for fun and not for judging. I am thinking of entering one of my quilts in the Sister's quilt festival. I would be so proud to have it hung on one of the buildings and the Oooo and Awes would be prize enough for me.
    Marie

  21. #21
    Super Member Rose Marie's Avatar
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    Even pet shows have pure breeds and domestic categorys.
    Quilting professionals should have a category of there own and non professionals should have a different category.
    It is not fair to group them togather.
    Last edited by Rose Marie; 03-25-2012 at 05:52 AM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Hinterland's Avatar
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    I've been to a lot of quilt shows, and I've entered my quilts in a lot of them. In the cases where a "nationally known" quilter won, I have never once been tempted to say the quilter won because of their name. The quilt was simply the best in the category.

    As for professionals entering in local shows, it depends on the rules of the show. Personally, I think it would be crazy to restrict the pros from entering because it's one way of attracting people to the show. Instead of discouraging the non-pro, they should feel proud to compete against them - who knows, a non-pro might actually win, and the win would be all the sweeter for having beaten "the best."

    Janet

  23. #23
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    Being a judge is not a fun or easy job I am sure.

  24. #24
    Super Member hobo2000's Avatar
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    Many years ago, I won the vendors award for my "Shakespeare in the Park". Yes, it was from a pattern, but was done in scraps of blue. I did it, had it quilted and I bound it and I won of or it. I did name the pattern and maker and who quilted it. I later was told, by a judge, that it would have won third place had I changed the design slightly and not named the pattern or the designer. That did it for me. None of my quilts that I enter into competition come from anything other than my head. No patterns! That being said, I have never won in another major quilt show. But the fun is seeing your quilt hanging, not in the winning, and the wonderful advice given by really great judging that helps you to become a better quilter.

  25. #25
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    I guess the important thing is to read all the rules before entering a quilt in a show for judging. If you see things you like: cannot have won a prize on this quilt to enter, separate categories for professional....then enjoy putting your quilt in to compete. As for big designers/professionals entering in local shows, I think they have as much right as anyone else unless the rules state otherwise. If a person blogs their progress on a quilt, I think they leave themselves open to getting their idea used by someone else before they are finished.

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