Gosh, i've just read this whole thread, and the memories! lol I have two grown daughters. I guess what was a turning point for me, was when the oldest was only 11, i caught her with make-up on, and i flipped, and said no way, no how. And so for the next few weeks it was a constant battle with us. So i was telling our pastors wife this, and i thought for sure she would take my side of this lol, but i was quite shocked at what she told me. I said i didnt wear makeup until i was 15, and the girls that wore it at 13 and 14 were considered sluts. So she says, when you started wearing it at 15, thats when most girls were wearing it, so it was ok then, right? And i said right. She said that's why at 15 it didnt make you trashy. She said, i see girls at 8 and 10 wearing it now. So if Cathy is 11, in todays estimation, that would not be trashy now, because the other girls are all wearing it at 11 too, right? And i reluctantly said right. She said if she was 9, and one of the first in her group to be wearing it, then no, but she just wants to be like all of her friends. She said i have to learn that her world is dif from what my world was. She said honestly, save the battles for something big. So i went home, and told my daughter she could wear a little bit of make-up, if i couldnt see it, but if i could see it she would have to wash it off. Well, that girl put her makeup on so discreetly, and that plan really did work. I guess when we have teenagers, we are constantly challenged with, what can i compromise on, and what cant i. My kids have thanked me for having strict rules with them, but i also saw, that the kids that had the strictest rules, were the ones that constantly rebelled. I guess im saying no guidelines is not good, but sometimes if we have rules, but with room for them to not feel theyre being strangled, it helps them keep the few important rules that they have. But you know, they always found a way to break the rules too. Like going to school in a sweatshirt, but then borrowing friends clothing at school. And they will break your heart. Our oldest at 16, had been asking to go camping with her boyfriend, well nooooo! lol So what did she do, one night she just went camping with him, did not tell anyone she was going for the night, i sat up the whole night crying wondering why she hadnt come home and what had happened to her. Yup, and she just didnt care. She knew she would be in trouble, but at the time chose to do what she wanted, scare me half to death, and pay the price after. Oh im so glad she has a daughter :)