Shop around as someone suggested and find out what range of price the machine is going for. The best negotiating advice is: if you're not prepared to walk away from the negotiations, you're not prepared to negotiate. The rest of that says: In a great negotiation, each side is not 100% satisfied. So don't walk in there with "I have to have this machine" dripping from all over you, and in this economy, start low and go slow. Keep emotion out of it. Forget "bruised feelings" and all of that other game playing they use. Keep your eye on the negotiation. If you think you might get it (brand new) for $2,5000 less than the list price, make an offer, and wait to see what they come back with. They might come down by a grand, but throw in a set of presser feet. So then you say: "That sounds nice, but what if we took $2000 off the list price?" Remember, you get nothing for not trying.