Went to look at a longarm for sale...(need advice from longarm professionals)
07-08-2015, 05:17 AM
#21
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis suburbs
Posts: 6,084
I would not buy any long arm unless I knew absolutely positively that I could get great service from the dealer. And I would not trust the dealer that they say they will help you, I would want verification from other clients. I have recently bought a long arm and the dealer is not someone I will ever call again. They know the machine but don't want to help after the sale. My fault entirely for not doing my homework but I got caught up entirely with the name brand of the machine and his great salesmanship. Learned something I won't forget. I personally would not buy this machine because if it is giving her problems, it will give you problems.
07-08-2015, 06:12 AM
#22
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 9,018
Walk away quickly.....for 10k you can get a much better deal....from a dealer with a limited warranty probably. Don't think that is such a great price....look into APQS, gammill,Nolting. On their websites they often have used, but in great working order, machines....
07-08-2015, 07:14 AM
#23
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Littlefield, TX, USA
Posts: 1,077
Sounds like she never really learned to use the machine. I'm not sure what you are looking to pay, or what she wants...is the warranty on the machine transferable?
First...inconsistent stitches: Was the takeup bar (bar going through the bed of the machine) too high? You should be able to just fit your fingertips under the bar...the idea is to have the quilt just barely touch the surface/bed of the machine at the needle/throat plate area.
Is the quilt too tight on the frame? You should be able to push up from the bottom of the quilt with the fingertips of one hand, and be able to grab them from the top with your other hand.
If you can't grab the tips...loosen the top a click or two. Also...side clamps...they are not to stretch the backing...they are to hold the backing edges level with the machine bed.
NOTE: The bellybar (front most bar on the frame), should hold the backing level with the bed of the machine)...what you are wanting is the quilt sandwich kept level with the bed of the machine...and not drum tight.
Now for the tension issues: Is the bobbin in the case backwards? When looking at the bobbin in the case (laying in the palm of your hand, bobbin showing up)...the thread should spin clockwise...thread going over the top left to right.
Tension for the bobbin case. Lay the bobbin case in the palm of one hand...bobbin facing up...pull on the thread coming off the bobbin case...the case should start to lift off your hand...but then stand on end and the thread should then pull out straight and smooth. If the bobbin case comes up off your hand...then the tension is too tight. Loosen the larger screw on the side of the bobbin one hour (think of the screw as a clock face...if it's at 3 & 9 o'clock...go left to 2 and 8 o'clock) and retest. I go even less... a hair at a time...lefty loosey, righty tighty. If, when you pull on the thread, the case does not move, or barely moves, and does not stand on end...you want to tighten the screw a smidge and retest.
Once you have the bobbin tension right...you shouldn't have to change it again, unless you change type or color thread in the bobbin...then you retest. If you are using the same thread in the next bobbin...you don't have to do anything with the bobbin case.
Top tension. Once the bobbin tension is set...you do all the adjusting for tension with the top thread. With the hopping foot down...needle threaded, pull on the thread coming from the needle...the needle will start to flex/bend, but then the thread should pull out straight and smooth, with just a hint of tension. If it's tight and the thread breaks...loosen the tension a full turn left (lefty Loosey, righty tighty) & retest. If the needle does not start to flex/bend and then go back to normal...and you feel no tension when you pull...turn the tension knob 1/2 turn to the right. Tension knobs on longarm machines may or may not have numbers...these numbers are for reference only...if you start with a 2 at the top, a full turn puts the 2 at the top again...half turn puts the 2 at the bottom.
The upper tension should feel about like the bobbin tension on your home sewing machine's bobbin.
Make sure there is no dust/lint/thread in the bobbin case or bobbin hook area. That can cause tension issues.
I'm really thinking she is not experienced using the machine & has had little or no training on it.
Have her make the above adjustments (or you can, if she lets you)....it should take care of the tension/thread issues.
Crown Jewel machines are excellent machines for quilting. I think most longarms are excellent machines...it's user error/no training that cause most of the issues with tension.
I have a TinLizzie18LS with a Qbot V3 (robot). Before that, I had a Nustyle 27...old green monster of a machine (converted from a consew industrial, I think). That old Nustyle taught me a LOT!!!!
Print this out and take it to the owner...I bet it solves 99% of the issues you mentioned.
Marge
First...inconsistent stitches: Was the takeup bar (bar going through the bed of the machine) too high? You should be able to just fit your fingertips under the bar...the idea is to have the quilt just barely touch the surface/bed of the machine at the needle/throat plate area.
Is the quilt too tight on the frame? You should be able to push up from the bottom of the quilt with the fingertips of one hand, and be able to grab them from the top with your other hand.
If you can't grab the tips...loosen the top a click or two. Also...side clamps...they are not to stretch the backing...they are to hold the backing edges level with the machine bed.
NOTE: The bellybar (front most bar on the frame), should hold the backing level with the bed of the machine)...what you are wanting is the quilt sandwich kept level with the bed of the machine...and not drum tight.
Now for the tension issues: Is the bobbin in the case backwards? When looking at the bobbin in the case (laying in the palm of your hand, bobbin showing up)...the thread should spin clockwise...thread going over the top left to right.
Tension for the bobbin case. Lay the bobbin case in the palm of one hand...bobbin facing up...pull on the thread coming off the bobbin case...the case should start to lift off your hand...but then stand on end and the thread should then pull out straight and smooth. If the bobbin case comes up off your hand...then the tension is too tight. Loosen the larger screw on the side of the bobbin one hour (think of the screw as a clock face...if it's at 3 & 9 o'clock...go left to 2 and 8 o'clock) and retest. I go even less... a hair at a time...lefty loosey, righty tighty. If, when you pull on the thread, the case does not move, or barely moves, and does not stand on end...you want to tighten the screw a smidge and retest.
Once you have the bobbin tension right...you shouldn't have to change it again, unless you change type or color thread in the bobbin...then you retest. If you are using the same thread in the next bobbin...you don't have to do anything with the bobbin case.
Top tension. Once the bobbin tension is set...you do all the adjusting for tension with the top thread. With the hopping foot down...needle threaded, pull on the thread coming from the needle...the needle will start to flex/bend, but then the thread should pull out straight and smooth, with just a hint of tension. If it's tight and the thread breaks...loosen the tension a full turn left (lefty Loosey, righty tighty) & retest. If the needle does not start to flex/bend and then go back to normal...and you feel no tension when you pull...turn the tension knob 1/2 turn to the right. Tension knobs on longarm machines may or may not have numbers...these numbers are for reference only...if you start with a 2 at the top, a full turn puts the 2 at the top again...half turn puts the 2 at the bottom.
The upper tension should feel about like the bobbin tension on your home sewing machine's bobbin.
Make sure there is no dust/lint/thread in the bobbin case or bobbin hook area. That can cause tension issues.
I'm really thinking she is not experienced using the machine & has had little or no training on it.
Have her make the above adjustments (or you can, if she lets you)....it should take care of the tension/thread issues.
Crown Jewel machines are excellent machines for quilting. I think most longarms are excellent machines...it's user error/no training that cause most of the issues with tension.
I have a TinLizzie18LS with a Qbot V3 (robot). Before that, I had a Nustyle 27...old green monster of a machine (converted from a consew industrial, I think). That old Nustyle taught me a LOT!!!!
Print this out and take it to the owner...I bet it solves 99% of the issues you mentioned.
Marge
I went to look at a 3 yr old crown jewel longarm (computerized and with a frame) that a friend of a friend has for sale. ($10,000) When I get there, she starts quilting a small lap size quilt only to have issues with the bobbin tension almost the whole time. Then we switched to a quilt top I had brought so I could learn the computerized part. She can't get the computerized part to line up to find the center of where the flower was to start. So, then we decide to just fmq my quilt and and go to baste along the sides and top edges and when she changes the stitch length to 5 from 12, the top part of the stitches are super loose and are only catching every few stitches.
Sadly, it seemed there was one issue after another.
Should I be concerned if I want to purchase this machine? Or was today just a fluke bad day and these things happen? It's a lot of money and I don't want to regret purchasing it/wasting my money.
Sadly, it seemed there was one issue after another.
Should I be concerned if I want to purchase this machine? Or was today just a fluke bad day and these things happen? It's a lot of money and I don't want to regret purchasing it/wasting my money.
07-08-2015, 08:10 AM
#24
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nevada
Posts: 6,958
For $10,000, I'd keep looking. Someone else suggested an 18" Innova and I second that emotion! You should be able to get one brand-new, with the frame, warranty, training, etc. for that price. You won't get the computerized option (that's additional cost) - but you will get superb customer support. Good luck with whatever you decide to do...that's a huge investment.....so take your time. (Make sure YOU can operate it).
That said, you may also consider taking some classes before buying to see if you really like using a LA of any kind. Do you have a LQS that offers classes and rents out their LA?
07-09-2015, 08:04 AM
#25
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: kansas
Posts: 6,407
I'm a professional long armer, but frankly am not familiar with the Babylock Crown Jewel so can't answer specifics on it. Most long arm machines will last a long time--they are commerical machines--or at least the brands I'm familiar with. I bought my Gammill Classic Plus (28" throat) used from someone that had a thriving long arm business prior to health issues. I paid $11,000--but that included a 14' table and about $3,000 of pantos, rulers, books, threads, tools, etc. So the price sounds good. BUT I'm wondering why she's selling if she's in the business and why she could not get the tension issues resolved--I would have thought that she would have been ready to show you the machine and have something on it for you to try and know the tension was set. That being said, it sounds like either a) there are some technical issues with the machine that are going to require a knowledgable service tech to resolve (and $$) or b) she never has learned how to really use the machine--being a long armer means also becoming pretty tech saavy! I think a way to figure which of these is the issue would be to check with her customers and ask to see the type of work the machine is capable of doing.
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