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Free motion / darning on Singer 201?

Free motion / darning on Singer 201?

Old 11-19-2015, 06:40 AM
  #31  
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I've seen a 15 like that one on eBay, and I always only view North American listings so it must have been in US or Canada. I can't decide if I like the looks of it or not - looks like a large 185 and I'm not sure I like the looks of the 185 either, LOL. (I have a 185J, still not sure I like the shape, but I do like the green paint.)

Although this one looks like it might have crinkle finish, I think the one I saw on eBay was shiny black. Never seen one of these in person, but seems like I find the more classic style 15's about 3-4 times a year. I have one, but it's rusty and in pieces, sigh.
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Old 11-20-2015, 02:20 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Mickey2 View Post
I am getting better at it! I found an Australian blog and a lady there has a very good way with the 201.
Which one? I know most other Aussie bloggers
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:02 AM
  #33  
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She calls her blog susies-scraps, she has a post and a video on the 201 somewhere. I sat down, read all and watched her video a couple of times trying to figure out how she goes about it. For some reason I managed to get into it too. She didn't talk too much about tension disassembly or technical stuff, more in the direction of getting the feel for speed and movment.
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Old 11-21-2015, 02:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Mickey2 View Post
I bought this machine because of two blogs; Sewalot and ArchaicArcane; both bragging something awful of this model, and gave lots of hints and help on how to fix it up. I spent hours with Tammi's tension video, talking me through all the small uncertainties the written manual left me with. I so liked the idea of one of those black shiny machines with gold decals too.

I think my top tension mechanism is working as it should; I can at least turn it from 0 to 0, just slightly off sync towards number 1. For bobbin tension, it's sort of a guess, and a case trial and error. I used Gütermann sew it all polyester, set top tension between 4 and 5 and test sewed and adjustend the tiny screw until it stitched fine. I have fiddled with tension since then, particluralry when using top stitch thread, in one case it was like I could not get top tension tight enough; loops under.
Sorry for necromancering a thread. It looked like you still hadn't sorted it, and my ears were burning.

Was I bragging about the 201? LOL! I might have been. I do love how well built and quiet they are. Now, that said, when you're getting loops under the fabric, there are a couple of things that come to mind - tension is too low on the top. It's not always the tensioner though - missing a guide can do it. As long as you're fully flossed into the tension disks, threaded right and rebuilt based on my tension video - you should be able to FMQ in the 3 - 4 range. 7 is way too high. What is the result you get from the "Fast Tension test" on my YT channel?

Bobbin tension is not a guess. Technically, for any given thread (so of course, it may have to change from thread to thread) on a 201 and most of the vintage machines, tension should be about 1oz. To test this though, the bobbin case would need to be removed from the machine. I think Rain (VSSMB) has a tutorial on removing it. It's on my list to make a video of that process. Also TFSR.org has bobbin maintenance in their sewing machine manual for the 201.

The other thing I'm wondering - when you disassembled the tensioner, did you remove the pin that releases tension when you lift the presser foot? I didn't really touch a lot on it in either dis-assembly video but it can sometimes bind up if not clean, causing the tension discs to stay apart when the presser foot is down.

Also, there's something about FMQ and a hopping foot that seems to make me forget to put the presser foot down at all - which of course nests below every time.

The loops - are they when you FMQ only, or all the time? If during FMQ, I'm wondering if the loops are actually eyelashing. Can you post a couple of pics?

Originally Posted by Mickey2 View Post
New needle too, though I'm never sure of what is ideal for the purpose, I have a size 12 in a the moment. <snip> Tension is an issue I seem to be working on all the time.
Go up to a 90 or even a 100 for a sew-all thread for FMQ. Typically, I will go up a needle size from regular sewing when doing FMQ (or on my frame). The size of the eye seems to be friendlier to the thread with the direction changes as is the greater strength of the thicker needle. I FMQ (rarely if ever anymore, but I do demo it on vintage machines) with a 90 or a 100 topstitch needle.

Tension is one of those things that sometimes we fight and fight and fight with and then it just clicks and becomes like an unconscious thing. The reason I talk so much about tension on my site is because it was my biggest problem in my early sewing years and I see every day that it's also easily 90% of the reason I eventually see a machine in for service and most times there's nothing wrong with the machine.

Originally Posted by Sewnoma View Post
Ah, you're right, my bobbin on that machine is in front of the needle. I thought it was the 90-degree turn that was the concern with FMQ on horizontal bobbins - that part is still the same, but you're right, it's coming in with a different path.
The direction of the needle has changed too. The same orientation on a 201 if the needle was facing forward would put the bobbin behind the needle - like an Elna Supermatic for instance. Still a 90 degree turn. And the tip of the hook on your machine also probably comes around behind the needle. Actually, there's no probably about it. That's the only way it could make a stitch if the needle goes in with the flat to the back, which effectively makes the difference between the 201 and the newer machines moot.

Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly View Post
My hands are getting bad enough that free motion work on anything bigger than a baby quilt is getting too hard that's why I want a frame, and possibly a long arm set up.
Make sure you learn good posture right out of the gate. I found that frame quilting just "changed" the pain. Instead of my shoulders, it's in my elbows and neck. A shaky or weak hand day is still a non-quilting day for me.

Originally Posted by Mickey2 View Post
I have almost perfect stitches, a couple of places it slips of I go too fast; then loops appear or it skips stitches in a bend. It's all in the speed and movement.

I have the feed dogs lowered, pretty tight upper tension (closer to 7), and when I aim for low speed and have fairly small stitches it stitches fine. I need more practice.
This is what's making me think it's eyelashing. Eyelashing can sometimes be ALL about speed - tension plays a smaller part here. 7 is so high though. Skipped stitches can be 1 of 3 things usually with FMQ - tension too tight, hand movement too fast for the speed of the machine or the needle deflected too far away from the hook for the stitch to be formed. This last can be mitigated with a thicker needle that doesn't flex as easily. Thread breaks are usually tension too high, burr in the needle eye, needle plate or elsewhere in the thread path or moving the fabric at the wrong time/too fast.
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Old 11-21-2015, 02:57 PM
  #35  
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I want to tag on about the tension pin. Is it gummy with old oil? Is the pist bent, not allowing the pin to move? Is it the right pin - if some osmg cobbled one out of a nail it could be incorrect length or thickness? Is the hole behind it clogged with goo? And in some cases does what ever is behind there engage the pin?

I had an industrial machine with a drop in bobbin. Speed was not a problem with thread bending. I kind of think that drop in bobbin not fast theory has holes somewhere.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by miriam View Post
...think that drop in bobbin not fast theory has holes somewhere.
I haven't bought into the theory 100% either. It's one of those things you hear so much that you figure it must be true - but is it?
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Manalto View Post
I haven't bought into the theory 100% either. It's one of those things you hear so much that you figure it must be true - but is it?
I've said it a few times lately - a lot of things that are opinion are sold as fact. Just because one or a few people can't do something, doesn't mean it's impossible. Also, a lot of things have changed with the machines over the years. The basic mechanism of making a stitch hasn't changed appreciably but thread has, as has thread handling. It's possible part of the problem with FMQ on a horizontal bobbin machine comes from the thread delivery and the change of stack wound thread to cross wound thread for that matter.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:43 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by miriam View Post
I had an industrial machine with a drop in bobbin. Speed was not a problem with thread bending. I kind of think that drop in bobbin not fast theory has holes somewhere.
I’m with you on that. I don’t think that the drop-in bobbin is a reason to use slow speed.

My Singer 111W153 (I call it “Ol Dirty”) has a drop-in bobbin and is in an industrial power stand that is driven by a 3470 RPM clutch motor. Now, the machine itself is not supposed to run faster than 2900 RPM, so I don’t ever floor it when I sew with it, but I have ran some very fast stitch lines with it (think: thirty-foot long swimming pool cover seams), and I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a domestic machine that can run as fast as Ol Dirty does, and Ol Dirty doesn’t miss a stitch....

I wonder if the general public, that uses home sewing machines, knows how fast 2900 stitches per minute eats up fabric?

CD in Oklahoma
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:03 PM
  #39  
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In all honesty, if a machine can't run "fast" (within its spec), it won't well slowly either.
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:59 PM
  #40  
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You were more restraint than the Sewalot guy in the braggin, that's fore sure, but you were the best on the fixing-it-up part ;- )

By sewing fast, I meant my hand movements. It's actually easier when I go top speed on the machine. I have the original old motor and it's not very fast. It's a belt driven machine, not the highly praised potted version, still it's a joy to work on this machine when I'm not struggeling with tenison.

Bobbin tension; seriously 1 oz? There have to be a more practical way about it than 28 grams. I have to get a clever tool or something, a tiny scale weight?

It's a while since I did the inital work on the top tensioner. I think I did it correctly, tension pin part and all. I used sew-it-all Gütermann polyester thread (what I easily can get in a shop here). It's the same with a medium weight mercerized cotton thread I have. I set the dial to between 4-5, test sewed with two pieces of light cotton and was happy with bobbin tension when it was stitching well with no loops. I have messed quite a bit with it later on, I had issues with seams on heavier denim using top stitch thread and extra strength thread. I think I it's back to normal though; still I'm up to number 7 and 8 when free motioning I get it, I get it, I shall have to sit dow with tensioner again...argh..."#¤%&@£$!

Yes, only loops when I free motion, not normal sewing, and tension is more in the 4-5 range then, but still I tend to tighten tension.

early attempt, top.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]536261[/ATTACH]

early attempt bobbin thread, ignore everyting in zigzag, red and tan, it was on the Supermatic. The dark green thread is the 201.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]536262[/ATTACH]

later attempt with tighter top tension
[ATTACH=CONFIG]536263[/ATTACH]

Bobbin thread
[ATTACH=CONFIG]536264[/ATTACH]

Top thread, this is when I was getting better at it.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]536265[/ATTACH]

Bobbin thread different color, same type and brand cotton thread. Very high top tension, 7 probably, I have been up to 8.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]536272[/ATTACH]
Attached Thumbnails 20151122_012046_resized.jpg   20151122_012059_resized.jpg   20151122_012125_resized.jpg   20151122_012201_resized.jpg   20151122_012215_resized.jpg  

20151122_020959_resized.jpg  

Last edited by Mickey2; 11-21-2015 at 05:13 PM.
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