sew4nin

I bought a Rocketeer and cabinet for $15 at the thrift store a couple weeks ago. I really just wanted the cabinet for my 401A, but I couldn't resist trying to get the machine to work. It was missing a presser foot and a couple of spool pins (on order). It was very dirty and dried up. It also felt like it was binding when I turned the wheel. I got everything cleaned, lubed, and oiled. It runs surprisingly well. My problem is with the tension. The thread tension is very loose no matter what I try. Yes, I have checked the threading repeatedly. The problem may be with the little thread take up spring. The thread doesn't always get caught by that when I am threading. I am scared to mess with the actual tension mechanism. Any ideas are appreciated.

J Miller

Here is a thread started by Miriam about tension problems. { http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...s-t170748.html } Lots of info in there.

Joe

ArchaicArcane

First, Joe's right, there's tons of good information in Miriam's thread.
I'd like you do a couple of quick tests for us to see if we can figure out where to point you though.

When you say "The thread tension is very loose no matter what I try." what have you tried?

I'm trying to figure out if you're threading it differently, or if you're actually turning the dial to change the upper tension (sorry, I have to ask. I hear too many people tell me "I don't touch that")

If the thread is fully seated in between the tension disks, and it's threaded right as you say, and the tension dial is somewhere between 3 and 5, it should work, unless someone has messed with either the top OR BOTTOM thread tensions.

Do these tests:

1. With the presser foot up, turn the tension dial to 0, and with the machine threaded up to, but not through the needle, pull on the thread. Note how it feels when you pull the thread.

Now put the presser foot down. It should feel really close to the same, maybe a smidge tighter, turning the dial to 1 should put noticeable drag on the thread.

2. By the time you reach 4 - 5, there should be enough tension on the thread that if it's threaded through the needle, when you pull in the direction the thread would normally feed (ie. if you thread right to left, pull left, if you thread front to back, pull backwards - the 401 threads front to back of course) the thread should "deflect" the needle some (maybe about a 1/16" inch before the thread starts to pull out further.)

If by the time you reach 3 -5, it hasn't changed at all, chances are one of 2 things has happened:

• There's fluff in the tension disks. Try running some dental floss through to clean out the garbage.
• The thread isn't right into the tension disks - try this:

1. Thread the machine up to the tension disks with the presser foot up.
   
2. Thread through the disks, then drop the presser foot
3. grab the threads going into and out of the tension disks, and give them a gentle tug upwards. This will make sure that the thread is fully seated. I used to have a lot of weird tension issues with some machines before I started doing this
4. raise the presser foot, and continue threading the machine

This is the simple test I do to machines first when someone complains of tension. After that, I get more accurate.

If the tension doesn't behave this way, then it like has been / needs to be adjusted.

If that is all about right, I would say it's time to look at the bottom tension. Post back and I'll help with that.

cricket_iscute

ArchaicArcane, this is an excellent post to sew4nin. It was very clear and, I would assume, helpful to her. Good job! I've noticed that your posts usually are very helpful. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate it.

About the gentle tug, on a 401 especially, I always listen for a little snapping sound that tells me the thread is seated properly. Same thing, basically.

ArchaicArcane

hey cricket_iscute, thanks for that! You made my day. The first 25 years of my sewing experience were very frustrating. Then I started servicing vintage machines. Understanding the principles has made such a difference. If I can pass that on, well, it tends to put a real smile on my face when people have the aha moments and can avoid the frustration, and let's face it - copious cursing - that I did.

sew4nin

Thank you so much for this. I can't wait to try your suggestions. As for what I have done:

I have rethreaded everything multiple times
I did loosen the bobbin tension. I was comparing it to the bobbin tension on my 401A and thinking that the tension should feel the same. If that was faulty reasoning, please let me know.
I also found a diagram of "alternative" threading of a 500A on the internet when I was searching for answers, so I tried that, too.
I started out with the dial at 4. I eventually turned the dial as far in each opposite direction with no affect on the stitching. The stitching seems to be the same regardless of where the dial is.
When I first got the machine, the little thread take up spring/wire (not sure if that is what its called) was way over to the right. I eventually got it clicked over to where it looks like it should be from the diagrams and pictures I have. When I thread through the disks, the thread doesn't automatically go through the little wire like it does on my 401.
I have been sewing since I was 10. This makes my 7th machine. I am very comfortable adjusting tensions on all my machines. I will try your suggestions and get back to you. Thank you!
I'd like you do a couple of quick tests for us to see if we can figure out where to point you though.

When you say "The thread tension is very loose no matter what I try." what have you tried?

I'm trying to figure out if you're threading it differently, or if you're actually turning the dial to change the upper tension (sorry, I have to ask. I hear too many people tell me "I don't touch that")

If the thread is fully seated in between the tension disks, and it's threaded right as you say, and the tension dial is somewhere between 3 and 5, it should work, unless someone has messed with either the top OR BOTTOM thread tensions.

Do these tests:

1. With the presser foot up, turn the tension dial to 0, and with the machine threaded up to, but not through the needle, pull on the thread. Note how it feels when you pull the thread.

Now put the presser foot down. It should feel really close to the same, maybe a smidge tighter, turning the dial to 1 should put noticeable drag on the thread.

2. By the time you reach 4 - 5, there should be enough tension on the thread that if it's threaded through the needle, when you pull in the direction the thread would normally feed (ie. if you thread right to left, pull left, if you thread front to back, pull backwards - the 401 threads front to back of course) the thread should "deflect" the needle some (maybe about a 1/16" inch before the thread starts to pull out further.)

If by the time you reach 3 -5, it hasn't changed at all, chances are one of 2 things has happened:

• There's fluff in the tension disks. Try running some dental floss through to clean out the garbage.
• The thread isn't right into the tension disks - try this:

1. Thread the machine up to the tension disks with the presser foot up.
   
2. Thread through the disks, then drop the presser foot
3. grab the threads going into and out of the tension disks, and give them a gentle tug upwards. This will make sure that the thread is fully seated. I used to have a lot of weird tension issues with some machines before I started doing this
4. raise the presser foot, and continue threading the machine

This is the simple test I do to machines first when someone complains of tension. After that, I get more accurate.

If the tension doesn't behave this way, then it like has been / needs to be adjusted.

If that is all about right, I would say it's time to look at the bottom tension. Post back and I'll help with that.[/QUOTE]

sew4nin

Thank you ArchaicArcane!
I would call it a success. I have to do a little more than just give the thread a gentle tug to seat the thread. I actually took tweezers and guided the thread over the notch at the top. It is now stitching close to perfectly. Now I have to try changing the cam to see if I can get it to do all the fancy stitches. Too bad I don't have time for that right now. thank you again for your help. I think I posted a pic of my treasure on the 6th of June, if you want to see what you have been helping me with. I got a great buy for $15! Thanks again!

miriam

Tammi I love it.
Some times I just take the tension apart, clean it and put it back together and it works and I don't know how to express it - at least I know it is clean...

ArchaicArcane

sew4nin

I found your thread, you did great for $15. There are a few really god threads about cleaning them up and getting them to zig zag (and use the cams correctly) even if they're stuck good, so I won't repeat that.

Assuming that your 401 is correct, it should be fairly safe to compare the two. What number is the tension dial on on the 401 when the tension looks good sewing the same fabric? How about on the 500? (Will give me an idea if your 500 has been "adjusted" by someone - which it sounds like it has, based on the tension spring)

Believe it or not, "re-threading" has rarely worked for me,... I can't say why, unless I just learned through enough pain and suffering not to miss anything. The only exception of course is those tension disks.

I'm pretty sure I use the alternate threading myself. I'd really have to look at the old gal to make sure.

When the tension spring isn't above that "lip" that it rides above, it should only hang to about the 6 o'clock position... it was to the right? Based on what you describe - the part about the thread not slipping into it, it sounds like it might be a little mangled. I've had to change 3 tension springs this past couple of weeks, it wouldn't shock me. Functionally, the 500 and the 401 tensioners are pretty much identical. They just have some cosmetic differences. When you moved it over to the left, did you turn clockwise, or counter clockwise? (It should be clockwise)

Is your tension just a little tighter than you think it should be? Or looser? That tension spring will affect tension if it's adjusted too loose (hangs to say 9 o'clock) or too tight, say hangs to about 4 o'clock or so?

When I was 10, I asked for a bike for my birthday. I was a total tom boy. I got a brand new Singer 290C.

Yeah, that relationship was doomed from the start.

I didn't take lessons, I lived with my dad, who couldn't sew. When I got to high school, he didn't like the Home Ec teacher, so I didn't get to take Home Ec. Birds Nests were my constant companion. As were, their friends: Broken Needles, Boundup Bobbins, and Stitchedto Needleplate (<that one may have been from Brazil, like the machine) My dad used to take the machine in faithfully and have it serviced when I said it was bound up again. He should have just taken me for the lessons that all Singers come with. For 26 years, that machine and I warred. Then I took lessons, and just like that, it would do everything but a full width zig zag, or a satin stitch. Those ones still threw it for fits.

I think (now) that it was likely an "OK" machine, not a great one, but much better than I treated it. If one fell into my lap today though, I'd probably still shriek and brush it off me like a big hairy spider.

ArchaicArcane

Thanks Miriam,

I do that too myself a lot of times, especially if they're grimy and fuzzy, but sometimes, I will check first. Every vintage machine I get in here, I disassemble the tension. It really helps my sanity when test sewing it to know it's 100% right. This is also a test I can walk someone through via email or on the phone if they're already frazzled, and wanting to throw the machine in my arms and never see it again.