[QUOTE=Sunflowerzz;6747626]Okay,
What worked for these machines all of those hundred and more years ago will still work today. Part of the allure of these vintage machines is the simplicity that we are drawn to with lifestyles that nowadays border on hectic/frenzy.

I couldn't agree more, KISS, Singer oil is good non gelling oil, and these old sm were running long before teflon, similar hi tech additives, and automatic transmissions.
John in WI

My view is different; lubrication technology has improved a great deal over the years, and, although the old stuff is adequate, isn't it better to use better stuff if it is available?

I would also point to varnishing. I know that a big part of the varnishing equation is neglect, and that a regularly-oiled machine probably won't gum up, but why not use something that cleans as it lubricates?

My Kenmore from the mid '60's had a gold-ish tone to the metal cams and levers. I honestly thought that this was a chromate-type finish like you see on some bolts and other assorted hardware.
Turns out that this was in fact a film of solidified oil, and the transmission fluid has removed it. The internals of this machine look like they left the factory yesterday.
Why use an oil that will varnish over time, when you can use one that not only does not varnish, but actually removes the residue left behind by other oils?

That's my perspective, but then again, I can totally understand wanting to use 'period correct' materials on old collectible machines.

If you use and oil your machine often, you could probably use almost anything to lube it with. A sewing machine isn't a very demanding environment for a lubricant.

not sure how to word this... (deleted three times so far...)

I am curious if the relative mass and/or solid cast iron nature of the objects involved would be of effect. In other words, if the modern materials are engineered with the modern machines in mind, could the benefit to using them be reduced on systems that they were not designed for.

I say this because I know from personal experience, that companies today min/max their engineering. They will "de-engineer" something that lasts longer than a warranty. I can imagine a company doing viscosity tests and determining that their product is performing above necessary specs and reduce the key costly ingredients until they are with specs.

There was a different mindset prior to WWI..... Companies would compete to be "the best" not JUST the most profitable. I personally think that it was the governments of the world gearing up for War with the "give me the best price as long as it meets these specs" that was the beginning of the end...

I thought that too. I've cleaned up many an oil spill with cotton and have never noticed any damage.
Brake fluid is rightly the most likely suspect. It will lift paint off your car and combined with other chemicals creates other nasties.

Brake cleaner will do some serious damage but it will clean off 3 in 1 oil......

Brake cleaner was going to be the thing I tried next if the ATF didn't unstick my machines, but in these cases it proved unnecessary, as the ATF did the job.

It's scary, but very effective!

I so hear you on this. I quit buying AVON because they kept dropping my fav products and don't even get me started on their rich moisture face cream from the 70's. I STILL to this day have not found a suitable replacement and the stuff they have now that they say is the same thing..isn't. :thumbdown: LOL

Cool discussion. Someone took a huge bite of me when I commented the grease my husband used in big rigs looked a lot like lubricant. (I was joking)

My machines get mostly SM oil and occasionally TriFlow, especially if they are cranky when they arrive. It just has to work.

Welcome to QB.

Old school Prell (but I'm not sure the formula is the same on that, but that's what we used on my hair in 1987) or blue Dawn will cut oily stuff in hair. Heck, blue Dawn will cut oily stuff in or on anything.

johnm,

Question for you:

These samples you are watching, are they in covered containers or open to the air? You probably said, but I don't feel like re-reading 5 pages over again to find out.

I asked because I have many quarts of ATF, Marvel Mys Oil, and others that are years old and are not ambering or thickening at all. They are now just as they were when I bought them. Minus what I've used from the bottles of course.

Joe

When a customer asks what kind of oil to use I'm sure not going to give them a bottle of transmission fluid.

It's exposure to the air and the consequent oxidation that's the problem.

Think of it this way; linseed oil is a 'drying' oil, meaning that it oxidises and polymerizes (turns into a varnish) very readily.
This is considered to be a desirable thing, because linseed oil is used as a wood finish.
Linseed oil remains a liquid while it is being shipped and stored in bottles, but when it is spread thinly on wood and exposed to air, it gums up and then hardens.

Oil stored in bottles isn't a good indicator of its resistance to gumming/varnishing, because the bottle contains only a limited amount of oxygen.

ATF contains antioxidant additives to further prevent oxidation even when exposed to air, which is one of the reasons I'm so enthusiastic about it.

Well go for it James. It just seems a bit unprofessional to me.

I never suggested that you should recommend this to customers.
It's different if you're running a business.
I can totally understand why you would not want to recommend a product unless it is specifically made and sold for sewing machines only.

What product do you recommend to your customers?

You are STRONGLY recommending ATF to everyone on QB at least it seems to me - so what difference does it make if they are your customer or a quilt lady/gent?

I now recommend regular everyday sewing machine oil from the most convenient store that has sewing machine stuff. It is easy to find and use. It is hard enough to get people to clean a machine and oil it with out having to worry about what kind of oil to use. Getting out dried up oil is another matter. Some times one thing works some times another depending on what you are trying to remove. Until something better comes along, I will continue to use T-F.

That's part of the reason I like ATF so much; it's even more widely available than sewing machine oil.

I understand where you're coming from though with customers. It's certainly easier to explain that the bottle that says 'Sewing Machine Oil' is what they should buy, rather than explain in depth the virtues of PTFE lubricant.

I expect you'd probably meet with a lot of resistance for suggesting something new and different.

Transmission fluid has been around for a very long time - nothing new or different about it at all. For cleaning about any oil with a solvent will clean dried up oil - it is how much damage it does to the paint. I try to go conservative on that. For oiling a thin oil will work. BTW I did some research a while back with a man who ran an oil lab. You can use your transmission fluid - but I don't know why you think you need to make such a big deal about it.

I didn't make a big deal out of it. Everybody else did.

you believe that?

All I'm qualified to do is be a cheering squad - but Wow! You all are so knowledgeable it is amazing!

Yes, and so do all of the people who sent me PM's apologizing for the behavior of certain members, and asking me to stick around and not be put off by it.

Some thoughts from left field:

1> I hope nobody "apologized" for anything I've said. It's not their place to do that. I do my own apologizing when it's called for.

2> I've never seen any sewing machine owners or service manual call for ATF or anything other than a high quality clear sewing machine oil.
Sewing machine oil as sold by Singer, Alpha Sew, and others fits that requirement. Tri-Flow does too with the added proviso it has solvents in it to clean. That is what makes it so good on old sewing machines.

3> ATF and Marvel Mystery Oil has dye in it. That is why it's red. If you get this red oil on your light color fabric while sewing it can permanently stain it. That is one BIG reason sewing machine oil is clear. And even then it's recommended that you wipe your machine down and run it with scrap fabric after an oil job.

Use what you want, but I think recommending ATF for general sewing machine lubrication is the wrong way to go.

I'm done with this thread now.

Joe

Gotta agree with Joe & Miriam! Sewing machine oil has kept these old machines in great shape for many, many years. If a machine is froze solid, it's usually because of YEARS of neglect/non-use or because they were oiled with 3-in-1 Oil. And as a solvent, Tri-Flow is hard to beat. Kerosene is also good...in fact, recommended in a lot of sewing machine manuals. Flush oil holes/moving parts with kerosene, run the machine, wipe off kerosene, & oil with SM oil....won't harm the finish either.

Precisely the same reason I advocated ATF.

The red dye issue is valid, and could be a drawback, but this doesn't seem to be a problem in practice.
I don't think the dye is concentrated enough to show up, providing any excess oil is wiped away before sewing.
The dye washes out of my gun cleaning cloths fine, so it doesn't leave a permanent stain.

As for using ATF being new here is an old post:
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...d-t216857.html
if you search in the upper corner you will see that we have discussed ATF in the past. This is not new.

Hey! And as far as what we put on and in our "babies", guess what "Baby Oil" is. Why it would be labeled baby oil is beyond me, but why petroleum jelly would be used on humans is mystifying IMO.
I do like to try and be open minded, and realize many things are all about advertising $$

not to stir the muddy water but to me there's just one simple rule to follow and one rule i always follow: use sewing machine oil - it's been done before and probably that's the one REAL reason why we still have all these vintage/antique sewing machines. i'm not one guy to experiment. i just follow the one true tested method in oiling a sewing machine - use sewing machine oil.

I use Gun Oil. Be sure it is a lubricant without solvent. I works terrific. Leaves no oily residue. This was recommended by Passap to use on knitting machines.

There's a video on SewingPartsOnline's site were they show how to change gears on a machine. The guy goes "some of the best grease that money can buy" and proceeds to scoop a bunch out of a tub of wheel bearing lube from Walmart... here it is: http://www.sewingpartsonline.com/blo...machines-gears - it's at 12:55 or so. I almost died laughing at the job he did too. This from a site that sells TriFlow grease and Singer Lube and possibly others.

I don't think blue dawn existed at the time, this was about 17 years ago. I used dish soap too - close to a half bottle if I remember right. It was awful. The spots that hadn't had ATF on them were so staticy and flyaway they defied gravity and the spots that had been hit (one side almost exclusively) was matted to my head. My hair was almost to my waist at the time too. It wasn't exactly inconspicuous. ;)

Ditto! I hope no one apologized for me either. I would find that offensive.

Let me set the record straight here. Nobody apologized on behalf of any particular individual, they were just rather ashamed at the way I was treated as a new member.

No matter, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Hi Joe,
The oil samples are in clear "watch glasses", with a loosely fitting, clear, perforated, covering. The samples are upon a south facing bay window so that they are exposed to sunlight, open air, UV rays, and normal daily temperature changes. Solvent evaporation and oxidation can occur normally. When I stated that regular sewing oil is good enough for old, sm, I didn't mean to imply that I was looking for 100 year old oil to apply to my sm. A modern, plain sewing machine oil is far better than any oil that was available in the past. This is the reason for the research, I will know that the oils that I use are non gumming, at least during the span of my observation.
John

I was told that some of the sewing machine oils have paraffin and that can make them gum up.

This is really interesting. I'm glad you are doing it.

Then you don't want to use Tri-Flow, it has paraffin in it too.
http://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF...pe=MSDS&lang=E

I agree. I'd like to see the outcome of this experiment. How long are you thinking of letting it sit?

Isn't paraffin a good thing though? *

*I'm not a chemist.

(great gobs, I cannot resist...)

Paraffin is WICKed!!!

Really, you can't hold a candle to it.

I wax poetic about paraffin.

(sorry guys... I thought the day needed some levity. :p)

:D I loved it!

Silly thing. :p

I know there is paraffin wax ... but isn't that different ... oh never mind. I was just pretty sure that paraffin was more than just a wax.

Still... wax on... wax off

Years and years, there is no end in sight.
John

Then in that case, I'd be interested in a periodic update. ;)