I found a couple things on the Smithsonian site about Weed. When I had searched before I found http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollect...20Machine%20Co. which doesn't list any html pages. Thanks to a fellow QB'er I found http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollect...hine%20Company

Not much but a couple of specific pages - http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollect...ges/image1.htm It says it can not be run backwards. I know I had read about a machine that did that and when I saw :

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I figured that must be the device that would prevent the wheel from going the wrong direction. Should it have some sort of "tire" around that oblong piece, similar to a bobbin winder tire? While it is noisier going the wrong direction, it does not actually prevent it from going the wrong direction.

On the left side of http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollect...ges/image3.htm it tells of the things that would have come with the machine. Further down it also lists additional attachments that could be ordered. Something that caught my eye was the "needle setter" that would have come with the machine. That lead me to a couple of patents -- 34807 by Bartlett and 94667 by Hoadley assigned to Weed. Has anybody ever actually seen one? Probably they are all long gone. They probably would be handy to have and why they were supplied with the machine.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Janey, I have a needle gauge that came with my older Grover & Baker so that you could know where to set the eye of the needle. Perhaps that is it.
Your needle situation could explain why I found Weed, Domestic (notched) and Wheeler & Wilson needles all in the drawer to my Grover & Baker 9 from 1870. Perhaps they all worked for the those machines! Such cool discoveries!
Suzanne

Suzanne, I'd like to see a picture of the needle gauge.!!!!

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

here is the one from mine. (I made a few copies)
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Steve,

Thanks for the picture. Odd shape. We're wondering how one would go about using it. Could you explain?

no....

Of Course!

Remember this is for my G&B curved needle machine
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Thank you. Does the needle curve that much? and would you put the needle before the presser foot? or does it go between the toes? We printed yours out to scale. I thought maybe somehow would line up with the presser foot, but was slightly off. I've been going through a bunch of patents. I have found some that I like but I think that 94667 is the simplest and was made for Weed. There are some other neat ones that I'd like to look at more thoroughly.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Sorry to be late to the party, Janey. Glad Steve posted the photo. It is odd (and not really needed) to set the needle, but is nice that it came with the machine. I have been working on a quilt project with my little G&B. Sew fun!
Suzanne

Janey, my Wilcox and Gibbs has a rubber ball in the same area to make sure it doesn't go backwards. I would think that maybe on yours it should be rubber?

I'm thinking that rubber would be more effective. The oblong shape and concave surface would do it if the metal had some surface to grip when going the wrong direction. I snapped a few pictures - one shows the worn metal that is on the end nearest the screw hole. I don't understand as when it is installed that area can't get in a position where it would rub anything. Since this is a machine where there isn't "eleventy-million" sites with instructions and pictures and parts list, it is kind of hard to figure out with any certainty as how it was originally intended to work. I was thinking that an o-ring of some sort would have been on it. It is kind of concave shape and if it had a ring on it that would put drag on the wheel that it rides on. I'm wondering if maybe shrink tubing would have enough grip and still keep the concave shape of the oval piece.

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My guess is that anything that would have been on it would have deteriorated and fallen off.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Huge grin
 

:thumbup:

1. I received my needles
2. I was able to find a manual dated 1878
3. I got some plates cut

1a. multiple size needles - I found out that these http://www.dritz.com/quilting-sewing...cessories/252/ can go through the eye on the size 9 needles (I've got some other sizes as well - I didn't try to pull any thread through as I need to find some finer thread. I'm not sure if I will be able to get the threaded end through the eye.


2a. manual is for "Family Favorite Improved Sewing Machine" It is probably for a latter model than mine. Kind of fun to read and some different verbiage. A couple of things I learned was that by the time this manual was issued the needles that came with the machine were manufactured by "Excelsior Needle Co" and that at least some of the attachments were "Goodrich."

• Some quotes - "Thousands will learn without trouble or delay" (on title page)
• "If the woodwork by any means become spoiled or dull in appearance, apply boiled linseed oil with cotton waste or a soft cloth. Our woodwork is oil-finished; no shellac or varnish being used on any except Styles 6 and 11." (on page opposite index titled "TO THE DEALER")
• "If the stand is scratched or marred, apply "Asphalt Varnish," a quick drying japan, to be obtained almost anywhere." (on page opposite index titled "TO THE DEALER")
• "Never turn fly-wheel the wrong way, or you may break the needle or thread." (8-some difficulties learner may encounter) Evidently they had done away with the "It can not be run backward" per http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollect...ges/image1.htm
• "Remove the shuttle from its race in all cases when filling bobbin. Always take it out back of the presser-foot, and by lifting the heel first" (8-some difficulties learner may encounter) I found this to be true with this machine.
• "If you prefer to use a size finer thread for the under one, there is no objection." (8-some difficulties learner may encounter)

3a. The plates were cut with the hole in the wrong position - about 1/8" off, but at least I know it can be done with 14 gauge aluminum. I will need to figure out how to get it to slide in properly -- It will come.

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I have been spending too much time in front of the computer instead of the machine. I still can't get the needle plate screw loosened. Also I can not get the roller to roll.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Fascinating part about the 'asphalt varnish'. So there was a method to spot clean the scratches, back then...

Yippee!!!
 

I finally got the needle plate off. I had to use an offset ratcheting screwdriver. I was able to get it where it needed to go by raising the needle bar to its highest position. I had to screw it back in a bit to be able to get the tool off as it would hit the needle bar.

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It was really cruddy.

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The underside of the plate (and the screw) before cleaning.

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This is the top of the needle plate and screw before cleaning.
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Screw after cleaning so I could put it back on the machine. I did clean off where the plate sat on the machine as best I could. I will wait to clean off the feed dogs and shuttle carrier until one of the last things as I will have to take it out of the work stand.

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Here is the bottom of the needle plate after cleaning.

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The top after cleaning.

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That's all for now.... to be continued....

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do

Woo Hoo! Well done.

Job well done :- )

Maybe the needle plate will polish up futher with the right stuff. Where did you get the clever screw driver, I want one too!

YIPPEE!! - pictures
 

Here are pictures

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Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

The needle plate is clean, smooth (except for needle nicks), and probably usable as is - right enough for me.

The screwdriver was actually left here by public service guy doing some inspection. I tried to contact him to let him know where it was, but he never got back to me. I thought I saw one at Harbor Freight called a right angle ratchet screw driver. I think some other places call it offset ratcheting screwdriver. This one is about an inch tall and with the bit is 1 5/8" tall. The knurled wheel can be removed and a socket put on.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Awesome work!! So glad to see the progress!

Suzanne

Glad you got that off and it sure was yucky! That is an interesting screwdriver. I love reading the old manuals to see how they are written, the only thing is sometimes I have problems following what they are saying. I kept asking my dh "is that what they mean when they say that?" He doesn't know either so we just wing it and see what works.lol:D

Really, really grimy parts! They looked worse than anything I've had, and some of those were pretty nasty!

Good luck as you continue on this adventure. You're doing a great job, being patient, and are doing this cool old machine justice.

Dianne in Colorado

Progress report 12/9/15
 

Thank you all for the encouragement. One good thing about all the dried oil is that it really protected it from rust.

Yesterday John wanted to take the "work stand" apart, so I took advantage of having the machine out of the stand to take the shuttle carrier and feed dogs out. The shuttle carrier moved freely through its normal track but when I went to remove it there was a lot of dried oil at the ends of the track. I tried to scrape some out but still wouldn't easily come out. I ended up using a wood dowel and rubber mallet to the wood dowel, much like getting stuck plates off a Singer 27. The feed dogs were sandwiched between some connecting rods. Here it is after taking out the screws.

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Needless to say, the feed dogs didn't slide out easily. I used a cuticle stick and the rubber mallet and was able to move it. Almost out -

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This is the side of the feed dogs that is facing the shuttle.

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The other side - It isn't real noticeable in this picture but one of the screw holes was barely visible as when removing the screw it must have pulled in a bunch of dried oil.

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The shuttle carrier after I got it out

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I decided to try to remove the dried oil as much as I could, as easily and quickly as I could, by giving it a bath in Oxi-Clean. (Maybe a half hour soak) I brushed some of the crud off with a stiff bristle brush.

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Looking better -

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I will do a bit more polishing on these before going back into the machine -- I still have lots of cleaning of the parts still on the machine, especially where these parts go.


Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

a trick to clean the threads of the screws, add a drop of oil and pinch the threads in your abrasive of choice (scrubbie, steel wool, etc) and then screw it out and in to the abrasive. I use a fingernail pressed into a groove on some while i turn it. (I have lost too many to a bench wirewheel....)

I used this trick with the needle plate screw on the previous page. I use a screw driver, as it is a little easier on the finger nails. I have found another way to clean screws - at least the bigger ones like the feed dog and shuttle carrier. I used a vintage, pre-1978 PanaVise with nylon jaws and my 770 type 1 Dremel.

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Here are the screws. Left to right: after oxi-clean; after brass brush and Weiman polish; after oxi-clean; after just brass brush.

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The feed dogs polished up nicely, too.

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and the side after polishing that had been the "gunkiest"

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I also cleaned off some of the connecting rods and 'pad' for the shuttle carrier. It was kind of a cross between the shuttle carrier and the gunky feed dogs. I thought I had taken some pictures after I got the shuttle carrier off, but didn't get any before I cleaned it up. I just used the alcohol swabs, so far, on them to get the dried oil off.

I think that is about all, for now.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Little by Little
 

I have gotten a little bit more of the dried oil off, including the track that the shuttle carrier travels. The carrier will travel smoothly ALL the way through without any resistance at the ends. I didn't get very good pictures of the area where the feed dogs go. It has been cleaned up a bit more than what is shown below.

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I found a place that hadn't gotten cleaned up before I took the shuttle carrier out. Before ..

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and after ..

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What I found after cleaning the dried oil off the backside of the stitch length assembly - ( I still have some more to go with this. I still can't turn it.)

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Something I found kind of interesting is that the key that I have for my 99-13 and will work on my 27 (serial number allotted in 1903) will work on the bonnet for the Weed. I wonder how many different sizes of 'square' keys were made.

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to be continued ;)

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

It is truly wonderful to see what is under the years of accumulated neglect...

This is especially true with the early machines from the major manufacturers, the simple elegance and quality that they made these with is just simply not available today...

Enjoy your treasure!

What lovely results. So satisfying.
Maggie

Ain't that the truth. I certainly am enjoying my treasure.

Thank you. It really is looking better. I never thought I would see one this old in person, let alone be able to "work" on it. Actually, it is more like "playing" with it.

As much crud as I've gotten off, I'm really kind of surprised that it moved as freely as it did when I first got it. I worked on a couple of oil holes on the main shaft. The oil holes for the feed dogs were pretty clean as I could see metal at the bottom of the hole. The oil holes on the main shaft were filled with crud. I know sometimes oil doesn't go into the oil holes and the only recommendation I have seen was to stick a toothpick in to release the oil to where it is supposed to go. The toothpick broke. I tried the small dental brushes and that didn't work. I tried the airbrush cleaning brushes and a little bit stuck to the brush. I tried a dental pick and that got a little bit. I ended up using a broken needle to dig the gunk out.

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SUCCESS :)

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Now to the next one --

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I also worked on the hand wheel last night and will look at in day light. There does seem to be some paint that has been worn off, but I forgot to take a "before" picture. I will take a picture later of the after. It appears that there is some sort of press fit hardware and a nut that cleaned up fairly well.

Stay tuned folks - more to follow ;)

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

I love reading the progress of the Weed machine and how you are doing all of it. Keep it coming. HOw long do you think all that crud had to be on the machine for it to look like that? I have a hand crank that needs cleaning like this but it isn't quite as bad as this one. Will start on that after the holidays.

I don't have any idea how long it has been like this but my guess is that for a really long time. I kind of wonder if it was oiled every year - even if it hadn't been used. Like a lot of us with old machines - one wonders about the history of these machines - when it was last used/serviced and by who. Considering that the needle that was in the machine was an actual "WEED" needle, I would think that it hadn't been used for over 70 years. I hope your hand crank goes smoothly. What will you be using to clean?

I finally got the stitch length regulator screw off. I tried the spark plug tool shown earlier, but it kept slipping off. I ended up using some thick rubber that I had found specifically for this type of thing with a regular pair of pliers. I also have an old flat vacuum belt that would have worked as well.

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John had noticed some notches on the nut and the piece with the number on it (red arrow in picture below). We figured out that that was to hold the stitch length. I was kind of afraid that when I started unscrewing the nut that things would spring apart. It didn't. I threaded some SM oiled crochet thread through the spring to try to clean the spring with the threader as indicated by the blue arrow and shaft behind it. It was kind of crowded in there and kept trying to get it cleaned up but didn't seem to spring out.

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This morning I sprayed some Kroil next to the threads and the top of the spring. I turned the hand wheel a bunch of times and noticed that the spring was pushing the numbered piece out. I finally got it out to where the notches matched.

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Some other things that I have gotten cleaned up - the cleaned up rod where the feed dogs screws into as shown in the first picture on this page.

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The hole where the feed dogs go.

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The oil hole between the hand wheel and cam, even got some of the shaft cleaned off.

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Worked some and cleaned off the net in the hand wheel.

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It's a good thing that I don't have to take it off. I would have to get an offset wrench as the nut is kind of inset from the outside of the hand wheel. Seems like I have seen them for antique machines but don't remember which one. I do have 20586 for the 27. Just for grins, I went and got the 20586 wrench and tried it on the nut. If you turn it on edge one of the openings will work - I didn't take it off but was able to move it.

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More later --

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Great progress and great attention to detail!
Thanks for sharing your progress with us.
Rodney

Well done. I appreciate the continuous progress. So many folks forget to clean the oil holes and then every time they oil they are feeding crud into the machine. Glad to see that you pay attention to those details. Very nice!

Thank you, all, for all the positive feedback. And for following this experience of hopefully bringing this machine back into working order. I'm trying to get as much crud out as I can. I will tell later what I did over the weekend but I'm still wondering about the roller as there are a couple of spots that seem to be not quite right. This is where one of the spots where it seems a little sticky from a before photo.

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and this is in a little different position - but it is still stiffly going through the same place as in the above picture.

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There is another place, too but on the other side and not as bad.

Has anybody taken this apart and/or do any of you have an exploded view? I'm wondering if it is similar to a bobbin winder spring on some of the Singers. It appears one end goes into the shaft and the other end is loose. I'm wondering if part of it is broken off? and also if it really is supposed to roll around in the track of the large cam at the base of the pillar?

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

yes, that is how it was supposed to work. This specific mechanism and it's issues is what lead to the marketing term (for companies not using this anymore) "Light Running" The effort required to use this original Howe design is significantly more than later drive methods.

BTW, this drive method is also used in the Patchers (29-4,etc) and any other place where solid drive force is needed. In the early days, a sewing machine had to be able to sew silk AND leather (really sew it) so these designs worked well. Once machines became more specialized (for home vs industrial/shop) this design was no longer optimal

Thank you. I'm going to guess that should I be able to get it loose and off to clean that it would mess with the timing? The lavender arrow part does not rotate at all. It is always facing the same way while completely going all the way around the track. The red arrows are a wire and do not go completely around the shaft. The left end is the one that goes into the shaft and the right one is loose.

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I tried to wrap a piece of bicycle tube around the lavender arrowed piece to see if I could get it to rotate -- no luck.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Overdue - last weekend report
 

One thing I worked on over the weekend was the pressure regulator thumb screw & spring. I didn't take pictures of this process. Yes, I know, I covered that area before, but since I couldn't get the screw all the way in, I decided to work on that. IIRC it was CD that reminded us at some point that one should sometimes turn a screw back in as it is coming out to distribute the gunk a little bit. I had tried to clean a bit around in there with multiple sizes of the airbrush cleaner brushes and still couldn't get it past where it had lived for a really long time. I had had such good luck with Kroil on the stitch length regulator that I decided to try that in there. I sprayed some in and took the brushes to it. I was able to go a little further. I twisted the thumb screw back and forth a bit. Took it out and cleaned off the threads of the thumb screw. Repeated multiple times until I could get the thumb screw all the way in. I then put the spring in and pulled it back out and there was a bunch of gunk on it. Cleaned off the spring and repeated a few times.

I didn't take a picture of it, but I also took the screw out on the solid arm that is connected to the take up lever and cleaned it off some.

I was looking at a similar machine on Needlebar and noticed that it looked like there was a washer on the front edge of the feed dog mechanism. Upon comparing mine, I saw that mine had the washer on the left side rather than the right.

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I had put the needle plate last week and noticed that the feed dogs seemed to be closer to the race side of the opening rather than centered. I thought maybe the washer was on the wrong side and maybe I should change it. So I started taking it apart.

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After removing the screw, I realized there was something else in the hole.

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It was a gunky spring

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This is the end view after getting the spring and screw out.

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Stay tuned for a BIG NO-NO - shame on me

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

That sure looks like a roller that should spin to me. The short wire is a pin keeping it on it's shaft. You may need to take things apart quite a ways to get to it and clean the shaft of the old dried gunk that's bound to be in there. Probably not an easy chore. I just hope there hasn't been a flat spot worn in it over the years.
Rodney

BIG NO-NO - shame on me
 

I guess I better 'fess up to what I did - that I shouldn't have. Like most everything on this machine there is a lot of dried oil that prevents getting the parts to slide nicely out. When working to get the washer out of the front, the lever was not sliding out. Here is the side with the screw and spring out (also seen at http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...ml#post7412487 ).

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This is what I used to move it out with.
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Why I grabbed that screwdriver - I don't know. I have several close by and one has plastic tubing on it. I also had the rubber strip close by as well. Consequently this happened.
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Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Well it has been over a week now since I took the feed dog lever off and think I better post the pictures.

After getting the lever out,there was a bunch of crud at the end in the hole

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and the washer looked like this

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this is the side that was next to the lever

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The screw, spring and washer after cleaning and polishing (with silver polish & 0000 steel wool)

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The screw still looked like it had some crud in the threads. I tried the brass brush on the Dremel with the screw clamped into the vise. Still cruddy, so I took some dental floss and was able to get more out.

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Upon further inspection I decided that the washer was in the correct position so that it prevents the spring from getting twisted in the oblong hole at the end of the lever.
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This past week I haven't been taking many pictures. I have cleaned some more at the joints trying to get the dried oil off. I mainly use my fingernail or a cuticle stick or a plastic scraper. I have oiled multiple times and then go back and try to scrape off some more.

I guess it is time to move on to the irons and table top. I have been re-reading posts about restoring wood & irons. So many things spinning around in my head. I do have boiled linseed oil and vinegar. I also have Kiwi shoe polish. I also was doing some research on Briwax and found that there are two formulas. Also, something that I read about the Briwax was that because of the solvent used (I think in both - but different solvents in each) that it will clean as well as polish. Should I decide to go that route (Briwax) that probably "Tudor Brown" would be what would work well for the black walnut wood. I took some pictures of the table late yesterday afternoon, but haven't downloaded, yet. I went and looked again in brighter light this morning and found a date of Dec. 28, 1875 on the bracket for the extension leaf. :) Now it is one hundred forty years old (or at least the bracket is).

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

very nice! The chip is unfortunate, but not unique (been there, done that)

Very nice cleaning job so far. Lot's of close up pics, but how about a more inclusive to see the overall change/improvement?

Comparison photos
 

Thank you, Steve.

I've been thinking that I needed to post 'overall' comparison and came up with these!

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My. my, how time does fly when you're having fun. I just realized that it has been 47 days that I have had this machine.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.