So then he sends me this picture!
 

Just when you think you're through buying another machine. He sent me a picture of this Sphinx. It looks immaculate from the picture. He said she wanted $40.00 but I'm really not in the market for a hand crank. I think this may be a replica. What do you think[ATTACH=CONFIG]570449[/ATTACH]

It looks like a repro to me. Is that a feed dog drop button on the bed? That's a dead give away, as well as any plastic on the machine. Is the upper tension plastic? Does the serial number start with NL? IIRC NL is the repro prefix.

Cari

from our friends across the pond ( at least from Kansas, USA) Singer Sewing......uk
[h=2]"Modern 'Nostalgia' Model 15’s[/h]From the mid 1970’s what are often referred to as ‘Nostalgia’ model 15’s were made in Taiwan and then later in China. These were made to the same design as earlier machines with the traditional black cast iron bodies and with the RAF or Sphinx decals etc. They were even supplied in the old style bentwood cases or treadle tables.
The machines built at the Singer factory in Taiwan were identified by the model No. 15NL, whilst the Chinese ones are model 15CH. Although these machine look like the originals, there are subtle differences and they have a poor reputation of being lower quality machines that tend to be very noisy in use."

Too bad, I wish my handcranks looked that good.

Thanks Leon, I remembered the NL but forgot about the CH. Haha, the words "subtle differences" made me chuckle. Subtle as a freight train once you know what to look for. The repros came as a treadle in a press board cabinet and either hand crank or electric in a repro bent wood case.

Cari

There isn't the usual serial number on the flat base. He didn't see a serial number anywhere. He'll have to go look when it's not so busy.

Sure looks like a replica to me. The decals are funny bright colors....

He said it has made in USA underneath in the cast iron body of the machine. If it's not the repop maybe someone just restored it?

I don't think model 15s with stitch length lever ever came in the more elaborate decals? When was the lever introduced? I don't think it was until the 201-2 and 15-91 were around 1930. Not any of the pre 1960 machines ever had a knob for the feed dogs on the bed either (it was a setting with a screw underneat). I can hardly see the knob, if at all, but if it's there, it's almost sure it's a later reproduction or a Japanese clone redone with Singer decals.

No Kathy, it's not an original Singer. It's a reproduction machine. I'd like to see a pic of the "made in USA". It might have had the final assembly(to be a treadle, hand crank or electric) done in the US but it's still a repro, not an original.

Cari

I think that it is probably under the front on the lip. If you raise the front I think it should be there. (I gathered that from http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...r-t247808.html ) I was thinking singerco had a page about where serial number was, but I couldn't find it. This page
http://www.singerco.com/support/machine-model-numbers shows where the model numbers are, but by the dates there it doesn't seem to apply to these machines.

I think the easiest way to tell that this is a reproduction is the the drop feed, as Cari pointed out. There are several differences between the original model 15s and the reproduction models. The site Leon referred to also shows original decals at http://www.singersewinginfo.co.uk/decals/decal12/ and comparing them you can see that the original had finer details and different colors. I also noticed the lever on bobbin winder is different. Most of the originals have a fancy nose plate, where the reproductions have the striated nose plate. As Mickey2 noted the round stitch length isn't seen until after they stopped using the original Sphinx decals.

A couple of other threads that talk about this machine -
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...a-t192988.html
http://www.quiltingboard.com/main-f1...l-t146352.html


Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

I also read (somewhere?) that a giveaway to chinese made repro is the wording on the top of the arm. Genuine Singers say "Singer Manufacturing Company" while the repro machines say "Singer Sewing Machine Company". As the pictured machine does.

Looks like a repro to me.

Janey, Singer went to the striated face plate right around 1950 or a little later. Most of the reproduction machines I've seen have the fancy face plates. There were repros of other models besides the 15.

Cari

I believe you have a repo, this is mine. They are pretty but not as good as the original machines. I have one and it is beautiful as you can see, it doesn't sew as well as it should. Unless you just want it for looks I would stay away from it.

I have a black cast iron 201K with "pin striped" chromed plates, the serial number dates it to 1950 spot on. Apparently Singer made an effort to keep a high standard over the years, both to build and material. It's unfortunate the newer ones hasn't kept the same. Even so, I lean towards the older machines for various reasons, I like that they are old and have a history :- )

I sure appreciate everyone's input. I'm so glad I joined your group. :D

Sounds good to me. I'll let the vendor know.

My 201 was born on the same day as my sister, June 13. Not the same year. I believe mine is 1950 also.

Thank you, they are pretty. I was researching upholstery staplers last night and I came across a video where the man was talking about which stapler he used. His is made in Germany, not China. "It's a beautiful country, but they can't make good staples." And I agree, nails made today are from China. They aren't good. I actually look for old jars and coffee cans with nails made in America.

I'd consider this an original singer, just not a vintage one. Though the "Singer" company that made it is quite a bit different than the Singer company that made the 15's prior to 1955.


Saying this is not a Singer is like saying a 2017 Mustang is not a Ford. Sure it's nothing like the original Mustang, but it's still a Ford.

My 1948 15-91 has a striated face. My 1947 201-2 has a decorative (art deco kind of) face. My 1952 201-2 has a striated face. So, I don't think there is a certain date that they changed to the striated face.

bkay

Poor choice of words on my part. By "original", I meant vintage. Though if you think about it, the repros made in the 70s are now becoming vintage.

Cari

Cari - isn't that the truth about what is now vintage! Kind of freaks me out, thinking the stuff I consider "normal" is now 30-40 years old and vintage to younger generations.

As we get older, the years start flying by.

Isn't that the sad truth? I showed the vendor how she could tell the age if her machine and let her know about ismus? The singer page

Like anything else involving a change to a part on Singer machines, dates are approximate and there's always gonna be exceptions like your 15-91. But as a general guide, around 1950 is when Singers were getting the striated face plate and by 1952 most had them. Funny thing is, it also applies to Japanese clones.

Cari

The art nouveau chromed plates and gold decals are the last traces of the pre WWII world, before everything floral and classical was wiped out. It's a bit sad really, but we ended up with other colors than black and some rather good swing arm zigzaggers ;- )

It's at least true when it comes to sewing machines and architecture, not so much regarding furniture, china teasets and dinner plates; they seem to have continued as a side show along with the modern trends.

(Cari - isn't that the truth about what is now vintage! Kind of freaks me out, thinking the stuff I consider "normal" is now 30-40 years old and vintage to younger generations.

As we get older, the years start flying by.

My name is Cathy - and I'm addicted to old sewing machines and their attachments.)

Hi Cathy, my name is Kathy and I am too.