Welcome to the Quilting Board!

Already a member? Login above
loginabove
OR
To post questions, help other quilters and reduce advertising (like the one on your left), join our quilting community. It's free!

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Wheeler & Wilson9/Singer 9W Serials

  1. #1
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6

    Wheeler & Wilson9/Singer 9W Serials

    I've corresponded (lightly) with John Langdon (he edits the newsletter for ISMACS) and he's compiling serial numbers for both Wheeler & Wilson D9 machines and Singer 9W machines, along with physical characteristics of both machines, i.e., bed length, bobbin style, etc.
    Here is part of what he wrote to me in his emails:

    Singer was great about keeping records (mostly) and, even with the 'missing' information for some of its earlier models, it puts the other manufacturers to shame. W&W were not so good. Then, of course, Singer renumbered Bridgeport machines and effectively went back to 0 but with a 'W' in front.


    So, there is a huge grey area around the D–9 and 9w. No-one really knows just when (in the sequence of serial numbers) Singer took over. Nor is anyone sure exactly sure when they dropped the Wheeler & Wilson decals and introduced the Singer Celtic Knot style. And later, when they changed the bobbin to a 221 style (with holes in the side) from the one shaped like a donut or bagel, depending on your cultural heritage.


    So far, I would estimate yours to be a little before 1911, but not before 1909. So far, it is the latest example I have that uses the donut shape bobbin. If yours has the longer, Singer standard bed length, then it is clear that the company had adapted the smaller W&W beds to fit its own cabinets/treadles before it changed the bobbin.


    There is every reason to believe that yours is a 9w7 but, in later parts books, it says the 9w7 took the 221 (later) bobbin. This is an anomaly I have yet to explain.


    There is no record of how big a production run would have been at W&W, but we know how many of its popular models Singer commissioned - 100,000 per batch was not uncommon. Your machine is only 4,000 away from the batches which had the 221-style bobbin, so it could have been rushed out for a particular trade show, or promotion, as pre-launch samples or some other imposed deadline… with the rest of the batch following with the new bobbin. This is, of course, imagined but I know things like that have been reported. They had to have machines to demonstrate at the launch, so they could take orders for the main 'batch'.


    Once they were tooled up to make the new bobbin and maybe its housing, it was a simple job to get the assembly line to fit these 3 or 4 parts rather than those 3 or 4 parts, as all the rest of the machine was the same. I think what I mean is: even though changing to a new bobbin sounds a big deal, practically, it was quite a simple change.


    I have never heard why they changed bobbins. There seems no good reason for it. One is not inferior/superior to the other. Perhaps the later style was just more convenient - more in the style of the other bobbins they made. Maybe the old W&W bobbin-making machine was wearing out and they didn't want to replace it just for this one model. Maybe it was a 'size' thing - and they thought the user would prefer slightly larger bobbins, less frequent windings, etc. It could be anything. If you were able to post a request for serials - D–9 or 9w - I'd be very grateful. I can't do it myself as I'm stuck with a deadline and won't have time to monitor the replies regularly (I put together the ISMACS News magazine for them and it always takes more time than I have).






    Thanks very much for your help. It's greatly appreciated.


    Best wishes,
    John











    So here it is....if you don't mind sharing, would you mind posting your information about your W&W D9 or Singer 9W machines in this thread and I will forward the information collectively to John. He needs the serial number, bobbin style, and any outstanding features that you feel would make a difference or lend a hand in dating these old girls. Thanks!
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  2. #2
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Posts
    8,104
    Sure, mine is a 9W-7. Uses the 221 style bobbin. The serial # is: 3220806.
    The machine itself is just like yours. I can't say anything stands out about it.
    Well, one thing does. Somewhere in it's life it was converted to use 15x1 needles. A 127x1 is way too long, with interference problems under neath.
    It came in a 5 drawer treadle with the middle drawer that has the cut out spaces for the attachments. The drawer fronts have fancy filigree type designs on them. Don't know what that's called.

    Joe

  3. #3
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    So Joe...can you actually use 221 bobbins in your machine? That would be so nice!! The "donut" style that mine uses doesn't hold much thread. How do yours mount in the machine?
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  4. #4
    Super Member vintagemotif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,971
    Blog Entries
    10
    Mine is a Singer 9W, serial # W22105, with a 221 bobbin. Machines fits into my Singer treadles.
    Cathy was very helpful in showing me how to fix the tension; now, I should give this poor baby a better cleaning.
    She sews a beautiful stitch!
    Name:  Screen shot 2012-04-16 at 10.31.58 PM.png
Views: 1482
Size:  1.08 MB

  5. #5
    Member LauraJJ68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Vancouver WA
    Posts
    32
    Here is the model number to mine
    3136261, I don't know if it has any other numbers besides the 9W. By donut do u mean the case doesn't come out and u just slip the bobbin in and close the latch? That's the style I have.

    Laura

  6. #6
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlee View Post
    So Joe...can you actually use 221 bobbins in your machine? That would be so nice!! The "donut" style that mine uses doesn't hold much thread. How do yours mount in the machine?
    Charlee,
    Forgot to add, mine fits perfectly in a standard Singer cabinet. I had it in my #1 66 cabinet to test it out.
    Here's some pics of my bobbin area.

    Joe
    Attached Images Attached Images




  7. #7
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraJJ68 View Post
    Here is the model number to mine
    3136261, I don't know if it has any other numbers besides the 9W. By donut do u mean the case doesn't come out and u just slip the bobbin in and close the latch? That's the style I have.

    Laura
    Laura, by "donut" I mean that the bobbin has solid sides (no holes) and the sides are curved, making it resemble a donut. Joe posted pics of the 221 bobbin.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  8. #8
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks Joe! I hadn't paid enough attention to these machines to even know that the later models had the 221 bobbins! Interesting that they still insert in the same manner instead of having a case.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  9. #9
    Super Member vintagemotif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,971
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlee View Post
    Thanks Joe! I hadn't paid enough attention to these machines to even know that the later models had the 221 bobbins! Interesting that they still insert in the same manner instead of having a case.
    Charlee, Mine 9W bobbin area looks just like Joe's machine. Since my 9W's # starts with a W and has fewer digits than Joe's machine#, I'm thinking my machine is older than Joe's. I'm also assuming that mine falls into that gray area that John mentioned, the right after Singer took over. Mine could be one of the first 9Ws to use the 221 bobbins instead of the donut bobbins.

  10. #10
    Member LauraJJ68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Vancouver WA
    Posts
    32
    Ty for the clarification and the pics, I have the donut style, solid sides.

  11. #11
    Senior Member JabezRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    386
    Blog Entries
    1
    2768423 - D-9 221 bobbin. Picked the little jewel up at a resale shop couple years ago for $25, gave it to sis and she had it refinished. Gorgous piece of furniture, yea, she don't sew much on it. I have put more time on it than she has. My personal one here is a Singer. Love it to pieces and it just cruises right along but will be looking for a home for it soon.
    My stash keeps me in stitches!

  12. #12
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by JabezRose View Post
    2768423 - D-9 221 bobbin. Picked the little jewel up at a resale shop couple years ago for $25, gave it to sis and she had it refinished. Gorgous piece of furniture, yea, she don't sew much on it. I have put more time on it than she has. My personal one here is a Singer. Love it to pieces and it just cruises right along but will be looking for a home for it soon.
    JR, is your Singer a 9W? If so, will you share the serial and bobbin style?
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member TinkerQuilts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Big Horn Mountains, Wyoming
    Posts
    543

    Red face

    Charlee- One of my treadle machines is a Wheeler & Wilson in what I believe is called a library cabinet. It's a parlor type cabinet, and the front door has a mirror on it with two rows of fake books under it. The serial number is 2762558, and wish I knew more about her. The last patent date on it is August 2nd, 92, and bobbin is the flatter one with no holes in it, I'm sure it's the donut/bagel type. I put a new belt on and she runs fairly smooth, however I have not attempted to sew with her yet. When I have a little time to spend with her I intend to clean her up and do some sewing! I will try to attach a photo or two if I can figure out how.

    Oh well - I've fiddled around with it for about an hour and cannot get the photo to a manageable size. Operator error I'm sure . . .

    Lyn

  14. #14
    Senior Member JabezRose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    386
    Blog Entries
    1
    #2768423 is a Wheeler & Wilson
    #G9881500 is a Singer, with the donut bobbin in a treadle table #G0280005 looks just like the Singer in my treadle table only it has a motor mounted on it. Donut Bobbin
    Do not see anything about them being a 9W, what do I look for?
    My stash keeps me in stitches!

  15. #15
    Senior Member TinkerQuilts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Big Horn Mountains, Wyoming
    Posts
    543
    "Charlee- One of my treadle machines is a Wheeler & Wilson in what I believe is called a library cabinet. It's a parlor type cabinet, and the front door has a mirror on it with two rows of fake books under it. The serial number is 2762558, and wish I knew more about her. The last patent date on it is August 2nd, 92, and bobbin is the flatter one with no holes in it, I'm sure it's the donut/bagel type. I put a new belt on and she runs fairly smooth, however I have not attempted to sew with her yet. When I have a little time to spend with her I intend to clean her up and do some sewing! I will try to attach a photo or two if I can figure out how.

    Oh well - I've fiddled around with it for about an hour and cannot get the photo to a manageable size. Operator error I'm sure . . .

    Lyn"

    OK I believe I figured out the resizing, so here are photos of my 9W.
    Lyn
    Attached Images Attached Images


  16. #16
    Senior Member quiltdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    487
    Blog Entries
    1

    Half Size Half Pint Wheeler Wilson 9 handcrank

    Serial Number 2771081, donut bobbin. Machine length 10.5", Width 6.5", Throat Width 5-1/8", Throat Height 5-3/4". Carrying case is 15" long x 7.5" wide x 12" tall.
    Attached Images Attached Images



  17. #17
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks Everyone!! Jan, I forwarded the photos of yours to John...
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    450
    Mine is a Singer 9W and I think it is the 7. The serial number is W56102. I will have to check the bobbin when I get home.

  19. #19
    Senior Member quiltdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    487
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlee View Post
    Thanks Everyone!! Jan, I forwarded the photos of yours to John...
    Thanks !! Hopefully he will know something about my little Half Pint !!

    Texas Jan

  20. #20
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW (I wish it was the Ozarks!)
    Posts
    6,509
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks Mary!

    Jan, I got this email this morning...this is what John had to say about Half Pint:

    Hi Charlee,

    That's magnificent. Thank you so much. And your contributors.


    Jan's machine is super cute. The only reference to the short-base portable I've seen is a 1904 UK advertisement. There is so little written about W&W and no production records - some pretty trade cards and that's it. It's hard to believe considering it was the market leader in the early days,


    The short-base D9 is definitely a 20th century product and only produced for only a few years. It is clear that, when Singer took over in 1905, it streamlined the product line down to a full size portable and full size treadle; though the treadle could come with 1, 3, 5, or 7 drawers, or in an enclosed 'parlour cabinet'.


    You will notice a smooth vertical groove to the right of Jan's machine's wooden base. This, like the holes in the bases of old Singers, was to provide a route for the treadle belt if the owner wanted to mount it (complete) in a treadle. With that style of base, you had the option. There was another version of the (short) base which doesn't have the groove and was for hand use only.


    All the short-base machines seem to have used the same decal set, with side-by-side Ws. The contemporary long base had two Ws superimposed and a large '9'. There are a couple of exceptions, but that appears to be the rule. The regular horizontal arm decal wouldn't fit on the shorter arm so W&W put its name in "Gothic type", instead of the usual, rather wide, slab-serif face.


    Always good engineering, Wheeler & Wilson; I like the way they re-located the captive thread post so that it folds behind the arm, not above - reducing the overall height. And interesting that Jan showed it next to a 221. Not only did Singer introduce a 221-style bobbin (well, almost identical), but they also abandoned the captive thread post and mounted the post on top of the arm cover plate. Another feature that was eventually to be found on the Featherweights.


    It's often overlooked but a lot of the FW - the stitch-forming mechanism and the feed - is a development of W&W 's inventions. Even the idea of having the arm cover plate on top of the arm was W&W's. Singer had always had their's at the rear.


    I think Singer bought a bargain.
    Best wishes,
    John
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  21. #21
    Senior Member skaduzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In front of my sewing machine!
    Posts
    940
    My serial number is 244113 and it uses the donut bobbin. Last patent date is March 25, 1890.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Last edited by skaduzy; 04-18-2012 at 06:32 AM.
    Sew many Quilts.......so little time!

  22. #22
    Super Member vintagemotif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,971
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by skaduzy View Post
    My serial number is 244113 and it uses the donut bobbin. Last patent date is March 25, 1890.
    Your cabinet is GORGEOUS!!!! The beautiful ornate carving of the grape leaves on the coffin box is exquisite!

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    450
    I just checked and mine has the same bobbin as my FW and 301.

    When I got mine and started doing some research I agreed with John's final statement. Singer bought a bargain and technology that really improved their product. When I received mine the research indicated there were very few with the W serial number. I see that has changed.

    Thanks for your work to find info about our machines. Now, if I could just find a new tension spring!

    Mary

  24. #24
    Senior Member skaduzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In front of my sewing machine!
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by vintagemotif View Post
    Your cabinet is GORGEOUS!!!! The beautiful ornate carving of the grape leaves on the coffin box is exquisite!
    Thank you....it was my Gramma's.
    Sew many Quilts.......so little time!

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7
    Friends, I have a small heartbreak. I have my great-grandmother's W&W 9 sewing machine (#271523). We just moved, and the movers were just awful. They've lost the front slide plate. This machine is in working order, I use it all the time. It is exactly 1 1/2 inches, and I remember that the opening in it was in the shape of a small shield. Any solutions? Name:  IMG_0359.jpg
Views: 521
Size:  1.59 MBName:  IMG_0360.jpg
Views: 516
Size:  1.80 MBName:  IMG_0361.jpg
Views: 511
Size:  1.54 MB

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.