I found this vintage singer
10-17-2014, 07:56 AM
#21
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Location: Lafayette, TN
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What an educational morning I am having here--my son recently came home with a beautiful (but purt near locked up and just barely runs the motor and hand wheel); and we found a number YZ77 664 and it is turquoise Vogue Stitch 770. But today DH and I are going six ways to Sunday, so research will have to wait.....
Yours is so pretty and clean, and I might pay $25 or so for it, if it runs.
Yours is so pretty and clean, and I might pay $25 or so for it, if it runs.
Last edited by oldtnquiltinglady; 10-17-2014 at 07:57 AM. Reason: add a sentence
10-17-2014, 08:06 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by KenmoreRulesAll
Edit to add: This re-badging of the same basic designs was nothing new at the time the Japanese were dumping cheap machines on the US market. Gritzner-Kayser made some machines that were simultaneously sold as Pfaffs, Kenmores, Gritzners, Whites, and Domestics. Earlier, Minnesotas were sold by Sears but there were other machines that were nearly identical. Etc.
With the Sears Machines, they used several names earlier one before settling to Kenmore in later years. And they contracted with many different Mfg over the years, so you'll find Minnesota named machine made by several different Mfg. and often they took different needles, shuttles and attachments based on who actually made them.
In fact, figuring out what attachments fit is one of the easiest ways to figure out who actually made the older US machines.
Wards used the name Brunswick and some others, but most of their machines were made by National.
After WW2, much of the mfg went to Japan, and then you have a whole different ball game LOL!!
10-17-2014, 08:49 AM
#23
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It's fun. Franklin was another Sears brand early on, the examples I've seen were made by White. I think they may have been sold at the same time as Minnesota badged machines though I'm not sure on that. It isn't unheard of for Sears to have 2 or more different lines of the same product. In power tools Craftsman and Dunlap is one example. In the 40s and 50s Craftsman was the top tier equipment and Dunlap was their second grade line with less features.
Rodney
Rodney
10-17-2014, 09:00 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by oldtnquiltinglady
What an educational morning I am having here--my son recently came home with a beautiful (but purt near locked up and just barely runs the motor and hand wheel); and we found a number YZ77 664 and it is turquoise Vogue Stitch 770. But today DH and I are going six ways to Sunday, so research will have to wait......
Cari
10-17-2014, 12:30 PM
#25
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WOW.....so much info sort of makes it hard doesn't it??? BUT, thank you all so much. I think that I have decided not to purchase this particular machine. As I said before, I am not a collector....but would really like another older machine. I have a 1950 Featherweight also that I love. Really wish I had kept my Mom's 1970 ish Kenmore. Still looking for that beautiful Lady Kenmore that is probably a 1970 ish machine also. Going to hit some thrift stores next week and some garage/estate sales.....will see if I find anything.
10-17-2014, 12:43 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by papple00
WOW.....so much info sort of makes it hard doesn't it??? BUT, thank you all so much. I think that I have decided not to purchase this particular machine. As I said before, I am not a collector....but would really like another older machine. I have a 1950 Featherweight also that I love. Really wish I had kept my Mom's 1970 ish Kenmore. Still looking for that beautiful Lady Kenmore that is probably a 1970 ish machine also. Going to hit some thrift stores next week and some garage/estate sales.....will see if I find anything.
10-18-2014, 04:55 AM
#27
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally Posted by KenmoreRulesAll
Not to put too fine a point on it, the term 'clone' not only refers to those machines that copied the basic Singer 15 architecture but also those machines that were manufactured, then a generic badge ('Fleetwood', 'Premier', 'Sew Gem', 'Bel-Air', 'Universal', etc.) was later slapped on. (Often, unbadged machines were shipped to the US and a seller's badge such as 'Gimbel's' would be added so that the Gimbel's store could sell their 'own' machine.) The clone is not merely a Singer 15 copy but a Japanese-manufactured machine that is exactly the same except in color and badge or with minor cosmetic differences but functionally the same. So your Dial N Sew is likely a twin or triplet of some other machine(s), just with minor cosmetic differences. These can be traced (with some reliability, though not completely) by serial numbers and/or manufacturer ID numbers.
I have a Dressmaker that is a Japanese zig-zag. Another member recently found a 'Hudson's' machine that is exactly the same except the badge, i.e. a clone. Even the colors are exactly the same.
That is how I understand the term 'clone'.
Edit to add: This re-badging of the same basic designs was nothing new at the time the Japanese were dumping cheap machines on the US market. Gritzner-Kayser made some machines that were simultaneously sold as Pfaffs, Kenmores, Gritzners, Whites, and Domestics. Earlier, Minnesotas were sold by Sears but there were other machines that were nearly identical. Etc.
I have a Dressmaker that is a Japanese zig-zag. Another member recently found a 'Hudson's' machine that is exactly the same except the badge, i.e. a clone. Even the colors are exactly the same.
That is how I understand the term 'clone'.
Edit to add: This re-badging of the same basic designs was nothing new at the time the Japanese were dumping cheap machines on the US market. Gritzner-Kayser made some machines that were simultaneously sold as Pfaffs, Kenmores, Gritzners, Whites, and Domestics. Earlier, Minnesotas were sold by Sears but there were other machines that were nearly identical. Etc.
http://www.quiltingboard.com/picture...p-t164361.html
The term "clone" usually only refers to those machines.
The machine in the OP is just one of the many badged machines, most of which were made in Japan.
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage-antique-machine-enthusiasts-f22/vintage-japanese-badged-sewing-machine-fancy-stitches-t207880.html
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...s-t207877.html
10-18-2014, 05:45 AM
#28
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The biggest 'clone' element is the bobbin area. You will see that 15 clone style bobbin on so many machines... Some facing the side, some facing the front - some things just can't be beat. Then the Singer 201, 66 or 99 have variations of a drop in bobbin. I think what matters is what you are comfortable using AND maintaining.
10-18-2014, 08:31 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by mlmack
The term "clone" usually only refers to those machines.
That's how I've seen the term used and it makes sense to me, so I'm sticking with it.
Last edited by KenmoreRulesAll; 10-18-2014 at 08:40 AM.
10-19-2014, 01:16 PM
#30
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I'd probably buy it if it were under $40 OR $50 - I dont' have any clones and if it's one that I like the looks of I'd probably get it - at least until I ran out of room...on my sorta wishlist are the lady Kenmore you mentiltioned (such a cool looking machine!) and a hot pink morse (stil feel like kicking myself at not getting the one on ebay a few months ago but I'd just bought 2 machines so was done for that month). I also like some of the other colors/styles
