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Thread: motor differences Singer 411G

  1. #1
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    motor differences Singer 411G

    Yesterday, I was cleaning up the second 411G I picked up a few weeks ago and I noticed something weird.

    The 411 I picked up last year has a gear on the motor that looks like this:
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    The "new" one, looks like this (notice the lack of a post on this one):
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    Can I assume that one is a replacement? If so, I guess it would be good to know which motor can go in if the existing one fails...

    I don't have a parts chart for the 411G... does anyone know which is the original motor?

    The bobbin winder works, it drives off the handwheel, so I want to say photo #1 is the replacement motor. Thoughts?

    The new one had just been opened up to be cleaned, hence the grunge. The older one, well, I have no good excuse for that one. I guess I forgot to remove the handwheel when I cleaned that one.
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 431G, 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99, 115, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

  2. #2
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know much about these gear driven machines, but our 401 has the shaft like the one in your second pic. The bobbin winder drives off of the hand wheel.
    Our 500 has the shaft like your top picture and the bobbin winder drives off the little protrusion on top.

    So, I'd pretty much agree that the machine with the protrusion on the shaft has a motor from a 500 series or similar machine.

    From what I've heard, (this is not gospel) the motors are the same, just the shafts are different.

    Joe

  3. #3
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Tammi, The 'new' one is the correct motor how ever as long as it works it is no big deal - you are right the other one is off a Singer 500. I just had to go check mine. I thought well, maybe the bobbin winder runs off the shaft but it runs off the balance wheel so no reason to be like the Singer 500.

    Joe, the Singer 401G and the Singer 411G are sort of a different beast from the Singer 401A.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  4. #4
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Well, OK, then I guess I'll have to pick up one of those to play with ..................

    Joe

  5. #5
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  6. #6
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wish these machines could talk. I know that the 411G was produced into the 60s (the manual has a date of 1963) when the 500 and 503 would have been current models. Is it possible that the replacement motor was factory installed because they ran short? Or perhaps a creative OSMG did it for the same reason.

    Joe - sorry to help you add to your collection when you're trying to downsize! The 411G is interesting for a couple of reasons besides styling. It looks like a weird half way between rocketeer and 401. It chainstitches, and it's built to be treadled. There are knockouts for the belt. There are pages in the manual pertaining to the treadling of it too. I've read (probably here somewhere) though that you have to remove the motor for optimal dragless treadling. Which would explain why it has the "older style" bobbin winder. Perhaps they realised that it may work better to remove the motor. I've also heard the balance wheel is a little light, and saw a work around to that too. Again, possibly on the QB.

    This machine is somehow quieter than the 401/403/503 machines I have here, though that might be luck of the draw, considering it looks to have a replacement motor from one of the above. I haven't spent enough time with the "new" one to know if it's as quiet. I have had the "old" 411G be a little militant though. Sometimes the thread jumps out of one of the guides after sewing for awhile, then my tension messes up. I'll be curious to see if this new one does it as well. If not, maybe I can isolate the problem (I suspect it's user related, but we'll see)

    I haven't had a 401G in my sights yet, and I don't recall the differences, other than I think it can be treadled. Miriam has both though, she'll know the differences.

    Edit: LOL! I see Miriam has that covered.
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 431G, 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99, 115, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

  7. #7
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Well, it's like this. I promised my wife that for every one I bring in now, two have to go. Well, two have gone. And I'm still not looking for any more. But ..... if I see a free one ....

    Joe

  8. #8
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    LOL! you can't pass up free. I did pass up a $10 White with a box of cams, without pedal, today. It was 4 blocks from the estate sale I went to. I believe it means I'm recovering.
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 431G, 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99, 115, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

  9. #9
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane View Post
    LOL! you can't pass up free. I did pass up a $10 White with a box of cams, without pedal, today. It was 4 blocks from the estate sale I went to. I believe it means I'm recovering.
    OH I need those cams.... trade you for a pedal...
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  10. #10
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miriam View Post
    OH I need those cams.... trade you for a pedal...
    The machine is less useful without the cams, but PM me if you're serious and I'll see if it's still available then go get it.
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 431G, 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99, 115, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

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