White Rotary 11 - Has Anyone Disassembled This Clutch?
08-29-2015, 01:46 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,258
I've pretty well decided that the White 11 Rotary I have is a Frankenwhite. This from here, that from there. The handwheel and the stop motion knob simply don't match up. The machine was an unused and uncared for display that no one knew anything about. I got it for a pittance.
The latch tab is too thick to go into the slot in the handwheel. I decided several days ago to file the slot a little wider (Fig. A).
I've had a hard time coming around to actually doing it though, and haven't. In some ways it seemed a little daunting. Each time I'd look at it, it was like I was wanting some alternative. I'd put it down and try to think of some other way. For one thing, there's really not a good path to run the file along because the center of the wheel is solid and also because of the ring around the outside. I really don't want to damage the ring of the handwheel. I have a liking for nice handwheels.
Another thing is, I don't want any play in the handwheel. I don't want any ticking when I move it back and forth slightly. I want a positive feel. I worried that if I made the slot too wide, it would have play in it.
Next, I thought of thinning the tab (Fig. B), which for a while seemed easier than widening the slot. But I couldn't figure out which tool would be best. A grinder? (Visions of it flying out of my hand and getting lost in the garage somewhere) A file, which would take a long time and how would I hold down the tab while I filed it? And the tab was the correct thickness for its own mounting in the stop-motion knob. I didn't want it to be loose in its mounting there. I could also get it too thin, creating unwanted play.
So, after several days of cogitating it occurred to me that the easiest and best solution was to bevel the edges of the latch tab where it engages the slot (Fig. C). This would have several advantages:
- considerably easier
- no play- bevel will find a firm seat in the slot
- thickness of tab unchanged behind the small beveled area
- slot in handwheel remains unchanged.
(Modifications Considered)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]529189[/ATTACH]
I believe that this is the best solution. Both the handwheel and the stop motion knob could be returned to whatever disparate places they came from- and still work there. Not that that's going to happen, but I feel better about not making more drastic changes.
(Latch Tab Modification)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]529193[/ATTACH]
Here's a picture of the latch tab after beveling. I beveled both sides equally. The string was tied around my little finger while I roughed in the bevel with the grinder. Seriously. Can you imagine a machine becoming unusable because an itty-bitty thing like this went flying? I finished smoothing the bevel with a fine metal file.
It works great! Doesn't break loose like it did. Step by step. Now I can use the handwheel to turn the machine and give it some much needed exercise. I'll probably post something about how that goes.
John
The latch tab is too thick to go into the slot in the handwheel. I decided several days ago to file the slot a little wider (Fig. A).
I've had a hard time coming around to actually doing it though, and haven't. In some ways it seemed a little daunting. Each time I'd look at it, it was like I was wanting some alternative. I'd put it down and try to think of some other way. For one thing, there's really not a good path to run the file along because the center of the wheel is solid and also because of the ring around the outside. I really don't want to damage the ring of the handwheel. I have a liking for nice handwheels.
Another thing is, I don't want any play in the handwheel. I don't want any ticking when I move it back and forth slightly. I want a positive feel. I worried that if I made the slot too wide, it would have play in it.
Next, I thought of thinning the tab (Fig. B), which for a while seemed easier than widening the slot. But I couldn't figure out which tool would be best. A grinder? (Visions of it flying out of my hand and getting lost in the garage somewhere) A file, which would take a long time and how would I hold down the tab while I filed it? And the tab was the correct thickness for its own mounting in the stop-motion knob. I didn't want it to be loose in its mounting there. I could also get it too thin, creating unwanted play.
So, after several days of cogitating it occurred to me that the easiest and best solution was to bevel the edges of the latch tab where it engages the slot (Fig. C). This would have several advantages:
- considerably easier
- no play- bevel will find a firm seat in the slot
- thickness of tab unchanged behind the small beveled area
- slot in handwheel remains unchanged.
(Modifications Considered)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]529189[/ATTACH]
I believe that this is the best solution. Both the handwheel and the stop motion knob could be returned to whatever disparate places they came from- and still work there. Not that that's going to happen, but I feel better about not making more drastic changes.
(Latch Tab Modification)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]529193[/ATTACH]
Here's a picture of the latch tab after beveling. I beveled both sides equally. The string was tied around my little finger while I roughed in the bevel with the grinder. Seriously. Can you imagine a machine becoming unusable because an itty-bitty thing like this went flying? I finished smoothing the bevel with a fine metal file.
It works great! Doesn't break loose like it did. Step by step. Now I can use the handwheel to turn the machine and give it some much needed exercise. I'll probably post something about how that goes.
John
09-08-2015, 04:50 AM
#13
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,258
Update On Progress
I have the stop motion mechanism fixed and have the machine pretty well oiled. The handwheel now positively engages and turns the machine reliably.
But the motor has more than one problem, and will take a while. I've just been turning the machine by hand, using my finger in between the spokes. Occasionally I'll unlatch the handwheel and give it the best spin I can. Unlatched, it now spins for more than 20 seconds. Imagine someone my age enjoying this. (Fleeting image of the Geico pig going, "Wheee!") Seriously though, my finger is getting a little sore. Wanting some better way to turn the machine for an extended period, I had an idea.
Saturday Afternoon Contraption
We got a brand new motor a couple of weeks ago. I decided to see if I could rig it up to turn the machine. I could then exercise it to get the lubrication better distributed and worked in. I'm sure other people must have done this kind of thing before but this is the first outboard drive for me.
I spent about an hour building this. With a wedge shaped piece of 2 x 4 and a cross member at the back to stabilize it, I mounted the motor as shown below.
(Contraption)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530126[/ATTACH]
The device sits to the right of the machine and turns a belt coming straight down from the pulley. The weight of the motor is all that is needed to get traction. It turns the machine as I hoped it would. You may notice that the motor is backward from normal. Since a White turns in the opposite direction to most machines, this motor turns the White Rotary 11 the correct way.
A Nice Slow Speed
I want a nice slow speed to test. I need a fixed setting, one that remains constant, which is difficult to do with a normal foot controller.
Some time ago, I built a current limiter which allows precise amounts of current to flow to a machine motor. It is a box with four incandescent lights in it, having varying wattages. With switches, it allows sixteen different settings. I've used it for several things related to sewing machines, this being one of them. With the 60 watt light in series, as a substitute for the foot controller, the machine turned at about one needle stroke per second. I used this as a benchmark.
The setup I used is shown below. While this is a still picture, the machine is turning slowly at a steady rate. The current limiting device may be seen in the background, with one lamp lit.
(White 11 Outboard Motor)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530127[/ATTACH]
Runs By Itself
I left the machine turning for about 15 minutes. This frees me from standing there turning it. (And easier on my index finger!) At the end of the first 15 minutes, the machine was turning at about two needle strokes per second, a good improvement. Even with the low current setting, the motor becomes warm, so I allowed at least 15 minutes for it to rest and cool.
All told, it's probably turned slowly for about two hours. I repeated this 15 minutes on, fifteen minutes off pattern several times over the course of a couple of days. I could have put it on a 15 minute cycling timer, but I had the idea too late. I think I've already accomplished what I needed to.
The machine now turns at a rate of three needle strokes per second. It has stabilized there. The exercise has definitely helped. And it has run pretty much unattended.
Now I need to work on the White Rotary 11's own motor. This adds further incentive to revive the motor, knowing it will have a machine waiting for it that turns smoothly and almost effortlessly.
John
I have the stop motion mechanism fixed and have the machine pretty well oiled. The handwheel now positively engages and turns the machine reliably.
But the motor has more than one problem, and will take a while. I've just been turning the machine by hand, using my finger in between the spokes. Occasionally I'll unlatch the handwheel and give it the best spin I can. Unlatched, it now spins for more than 20 seconds. Imagine someone my age enjoying this. (Fleeting image of the Geico pig going, "Wheee!") Seriously though, my finger is getting a little sore. Wanting some better way to turn the machine for an extended period, I had an idea.
Saturday Afternoon Contraption
We got a brand new motor a couple of weeks ago. I decided to see if I could rig it up to turn the machine. I could then exercise it to get the lubrication better distributed and worked in. I'm sure other people must have done this kind of thing before but this is the first outboard drive for me.
I spent about an hour building this. With a wedge shaped piece of 2 x 4 and a cross member at the back to stabilize it, I mounted the motor as shown below.
(Contraption)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530126[/ATTACH]
The device sits to the right of the machine and turns a belt coming straight down from the pulley. The weight of the motor is all that is needed to get traction. It turns the machine as I hoped it would. You may notice that the motor is backward from normal. Since a White turns in the opposite direction to most machines, this motor turns the White Rotary 11 the correct way.
A Nice Slow Speed
I want a nice slow speed to test. I need a fixed setting, one that remains constant, which is difficult to do with a normal foot controller.
Some time ago, I built a current limiter which allows precise amounts of current to flow to a machine motor. It is a box with four incandescent lights in it, having varying wattages. With switches, it allows sixteen different settings. I've used it for several things related to sewing machines, this being one of them. With the 60 watt light in series, as a substitute for the foot controller, the machine turned at about one needle stroke per second. I used this as a benchmark.
The setup I used is shown below. While this is a still picture, the machine is turning slowly at a steady rate. The current limiting device may be seen in the background, with one lamp lit.
(White 11 Outboard Motor)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530127[/ATTACH]
Runs By Itself
I left the machine turning for about 15 minutes. This frees me from standing there turning it. (And easier on my index finger!) At the end of the first 15 minutes, the machine was turning at about two needle strokes per second, a good improvement. Even with the low current setting, the motor becomes warm, so I allowed at least 15 minutes for it to rest and cool.
All told, it's probably turned slowly for about two hours. I repeated this 15 minutes on, fifteen minutes off pattern several times over the course of a couple of days. I could have put it on a 15 minute cycling timer, but I had the idea too late. I think I've already accomplished what I needed to.
The machine now turns at a rate of three needle strokes per second. It has stabilized there. The exercise has definitely helped. And it has run pretty much unattended.
Now I need to work on the White Rotary 11's own motor. This adds further incentive to revive the motor, knowing it will have a machine waiting for it that turns smoothly and almost effortlessly.
John
09-08-2015, 05:54 AM
#14
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Centralia, WA, USA
Posts: 4,890
Nice solutions for the tab and the motor.
Hamilton Beach made an outboard motor for sewing machines and other small appliances back when electric was still only an option.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Hami...p2047675.l2557
One more thing on my "want" list.
Your version has the advantage of being easily made and not tearing up a pretty cool motor.
I like the string idea too. I've flung more than one part across my shop while wire wheeling and polishing parts.
A word of caution. I can see the string getting wrapped up in the grinder. Maybe tie it of on something other than your your finger so your finger doesn't get sucked into the grinder.
Could just be my own paranoia. My grinding setup is an old arbor that was made way before guards were considered necessary. The possibility of getting the string caught is much higher on mine than it would be on a modern setup.
I do like the easy access to the wheel for wire brushing and polishing though.
Rodney
Hamilton Beach made an outboard motor for sewing machines and other small appliances back when electric was still only an option.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Hami...p2047675.l2557
One more thing on my "want" list.
Your version has the advantage of being easily made and not tearing up a pretty cool motor.
I like the string idea too. I've flung more than one part across my shop while wire wheeling and polishing parts.
A word of caution. I can see the string getting wrapped up in the grinder. Maybe tie it of on something other than your your finger so your finger doesn't get sucked into the grinder.
Could just be my own paranoia. My grinding setup is an old arbor that was made way before guards were considered necessary. The possibility of getting the string caught is much higher on mine than it would be on a modern setup.
I do like the easy access to the wheel for wire brushing and polishing though.
Rodney
04-28-2016, 04:46 AM
#15
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,258
It's been quite a while since I posted anything about this machine. I've been busy with other things and have only worked with it off and on. I've worked through a couple of mechanical problems and it's a nice working machine, except for the drive mechanism. With lubrication the motor seems fine and runs smoothly when disengaged. The rubber drive wheel though, had the dreaded flat spot from being pressed against the handwheel, maybe for decades. Additionally, the rubber had shrunk and cracked from drying out over the years.
The set screw on the old drive wheel will NOT come loose. I've tried everything. Penetrants of all kinds. Heat. Cold. And good old brute force, at least up to the point of doing harm.
Another issue was that in holding onto the drive wheel, trying to get the set screw loose, the rubber separated from the brass part underneath it. The shrinkage of the rubber caused the rubber to pull back from it and it came loose. The old rubber turned freely on the brass part of the drive wheel.
I decided to take a new approach. If I can't put a new rubber drive wheel on the motor, maybe I can put new rubber on the drive wheel. I've always kind of wondered if you could replace the rubber on one of these drive wheels.
A trip to Auto Zone yielded a section of rubber tubing that seemed like it might work. I had to buy a foot, when I only needed 1/2 an inch or so. It has an inside diameter of 5/16 of an inch. And I got real rubber. There are types of tubing that are synthetic materials and don't have the grip that rubber does.
I removed the old rubber carefully from the brass underneath it. It cracked apart pretty easily.
(Brass Drive Wheel Without Rubber)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548827[/ATTACH]
I was surprised to see the grooves that run around the brass part of the wheel. I would think that grooves parallel to the axis would grip the rubber better.
I cut a half inch section of the tubing, being as careful as I could to get a good edge on both ends. I had to grind down the outer brass flange a little bit, to allow the tubing to be pushed over it. I had a sealant called Permatex Ultra Black (available in auto stores), which I used to lubricate the rubber in slipping it over the flange, as well as to bond the rubber to the brass when it was cured.
(Preparation For Tubing)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548828[/ATTACH]
The tubing slipped onto the brass part with only a little difficulty. Once cured, it is bonded securely to the brass. No slippage.
(New Rubber On Drive Wheel)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548829[/ATTACH]
What started out as a dusty, dirty machine with several mechanical issues is now a clean, shiny, smoothly running machine. A White expert might notice the slightly smaller diameter of the drive wheel. Most people wouldn't even notice. The effect of this will be that the machine will run slightly slower, which can be easily compensated for with the foot controller. A benefit is that it will have a little more turning power or torque delivered to the machine.
With the drive wheel working satisfactorily, I'm going to call this restoration complete.
John
The set screw on the old drive wheel will NOT come loose. I've tried everything. Penetrants of all kinds. Heat. Cold. And good old brute force, at least up to the point of doing harm.
Another issue was that in holding onto the drive wheel, trying to get the set screw loose, the rubber separated from the brass part underneath it. The shrinkage of the rubber caused the rubber to pull back from it and it came loose. The old rubber turned freely on the brass part of the drive wheel.
I decided to take a new approach. If I can't put a new rubber drive wheel on the motor, maybe I can put new rubber on the drive wheel. I've always kind of wondered if you could replace the rubber on one of these drive wheels.
A trip to Auto Zone yielded a section of rubber tubing that seemed like it might work. I had to buy a foot, when I only needed 1/2 an inch or so. It has an inside diameter of 5/16 of an inch. And I got real rubber. There are types of tubing that are synthetic materials and don't have the grip that rubber does.
I removed the old rubber carefully from the brass underneath it. It cracked apart pretty easily.
(Brass Drive Wheel Without Rubber)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548827[/ATTACH]
I was surprised to see the grooves that run around the brass part of the wheel. I would think that grooves parallel to the axis would grip the rubber better.
I cut a half inch section of the tubing, being as careful as I could to get a good edge on both ends. I had to grind down the outer brass flange a little bit, to allow the tubing to be pushed over it. I had a sealant called Permatex Ultra Black (available in auto stores), which I used to lubricate the rubber in slipping it over the flange, as well as to bond the rubber to the brass when it was cured.
(Preparation For Tubing)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548828[/ATTACH]
The tubing slipped onto the brass part with only a little difficulty. Once cured, it is bonded securely to the brass. No slippage.
(New Rubber On Drive Wheel)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]548829[/ATTACH]
What started out as a dusty, dirty machine with several mechanical issues is now a clean, shiny, smoothly running machine. A White expert might notice the slightly smaller diameter of the drive wheel. Most people wouldn't even notice. The effect of this will be that the machine will run slightly slower, which can be easily compensated for with the foot controller. A benefit is that it will have a little more turning power or torque delivered to the machine.
With the drive wheel working satisfactorily, I'm going to call this restoration complete.
John
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