My last car shopping was last September. No matter how much negotions you go thru, when you leave the dealership you still feel you got the bad end of the deal. I thought I got a good deal of talking them down from 21K to 17K but now I don't know. But I'm happy with my car. It is a RED 08 Toyota RAV4. The important thing is that it is RED. For a 62 year old grandma. I've never had a red car in my life.