I did not read all 12 pages - true confession time! - but I understand what you mean about the guild experience. I am one who gave it a second - third - yes, about ten years of trying. I have found another group, and am in the process of easing out of responsibilities (efforts that are not appreciated, by the way) and joining whole-heartedly in the other group - right here! I have learned more, and made more friends, since joining the board than in 10 years in the guild. (And it is NOT because I did not try, or did not volunteer)