Doing a project for Sociology
10-08-2011, 10:57 AM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 514
What middle class? It seems to have disappeared. The wealthy now have a greater proportion of our nation's income since around 1900 or so. Stores that catered to the middle class are suffering. Stores that cater to the upper and lower classes are doing great!
10-08-2011, 11:59 AM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by mhunt1717
In my opinion, the difference in the classes is cultural, and includes economic decison-making, education, and how one spends free time.
I just upgraded my care from a 2003 to a 2011 after driving my car 161,000 miles. Hadn't had car payments in seven years. I surely could have afforded a new car way before now and I do have a sizeable amount saved for my retirement (I am 58 now). I also put aside enough money to get my daughter through 4 years of college plus a masters degree if she wanted one, not knowing if I would qualify for financial aid of any kind. My husband was laid off from his job in 2009 after 43 1/2 years working at the same business and hasn't found another job yet -- guess he's too old.
Not bragging, but it can be done if you choose wisely when making financial choices.
10-08-2011, 01:02 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, Fl
Posts: 582
If you haven't figured out how not to pay taxes, but you own a house and most likely a car, you are middle class.
If you own at least one house, several cars, probably a boat if you live within a state of water, dine out regularly, need an accountant, and probably have more deductions that most of us have income, you are upper class.
If you have much too money, have recently bought an election, but now no one in your party will stand close enough to you to have their photo take with you, and even the good ideas you have turn out badly...and you pay no taxes on your billions...you are the current governor of Florida.
If you own at least one house, several cars, probably a boat if you live within a state of water, dine out regularly, need an accountant, and probably have more deductions that most of us have income, you are upper class.
If you have much too money, have recently bought an election, but now no one in your party will stand close enough to you to have their photo take with you, and even the good ideas you have turn out badly...and you pay no taxes on your billions...you are the current governor of Florida.
10-08-2011, 01:23 PM
#54
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Headed home
Posts: 2,372
[quote=niizh]I think the term "class" is relative. Dependent on the area in which you live. If you live in a small town/city, you may be considered "upper" class just because you may have more than others in same town... When growing up, I always thought my family was "poor"... My parents just didn't talk about what they had. Just worked and taught their children how to work. [quote]
This is true as to the relativity of the terms. What is a 'good' income that supplies what is 'needed' can vary because the area you live in may be a less expensive area. So upper class there may be middle class elsewhere.
I, too, grew up in a family where we were taught to work. We had no idea about the financial worth of the family. We just knew that if we did not get out in the garden and work, we would not eat the next winter. Turns out differently now that I am an adult. But we learned the value of hard work, and are not afraid to get hands dirty to accomplish the needed tasks.
We were below poverty level when we got married, worked our way through school with a little help from family. Now we are a middle class family (where we came from) and one of the upper class where we currently live. That has no bearing on what will come when we move out of here. Who knows, we may be sitting at the bottom of the ladder there! :lol:
So:
middle class - has the needs of the family covered, and has extra to enjoy some wants (travel, etc.)
upper class - has needs and wants of the family covered, and has extra to spend or start a business or ...
I think it is the responsibility of ALL people to give to help those who have less. Even when we were poor, we had something to share. Might have been just the produce from our garden, but we shared. It would be terrible to raise a generation of kids that thought that just because they don't have everything they want, they can't give something to help others.
This is true as to the relativity of the terms. What is a 'good' income that supplies what is 'needed' can vary because the area you live in may be a less expensive area. So upper class there may be middle class elsewhere.
I, too, grew up in a family where we were taught to work. We had no idea about the financial worth of the family. We just knew that if we did not get out in the garden and work, we would not eat the next winter. Turns out differently now that I am an adult. But we learned the value of hard work, and are not afraid to get hands dirty to accomplish the needed tasks.
We were below poverty level when we got married, worked our way through school with a little help from family. Now we are a middle class family (where we came from) and one of the upper class where we currently live. That has no bearing on what will come when we move out of here. Who knows, we may be sitting at the bottom of the ladder there! :lol:
So:
middle class - has the needs of the family covered, and has extra to enjoy some wants (travel, etc.)
upper class - has needs and wants of the family covered, and has extra to spend or start a business or ...
I think it is the responsibility of ALL people to give to help those who have less. Even when we were poor, we had something to share. Might have been just the produce from our garden, but we shared. It would be terrible to raise a generation of kids that thought that just because they don't have everything they want, they can't give something to help others.
10-08-2011, 01:44 PM
#56
Super Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mason, Ohio
Posts: 1,465
To me Upper Class has money "built in". In addition to built in money, there has been training in manners, good education, varied experiences (travel, languages, important people, exposure to a variety of world sports, literature, fine arts, world cultures) By important people, I mean, perhaps a doctor dedicated to finding a cure, or working with the poor, perhaps a professor, an author, an artist, an inventor. Maybe more "people of influence". Little concern for the cost of most items. Refinement.
Middle class can have some or many characteristics of upper class, but not all. The determiner of middle class is usually "built in" money, but often a lesser level of polish. I think of middle class as the typical person on the street. There isn't necessary a difference of values or morals, just a matter of opportunities available without concern.
Middle class can have some or many characteristics of upper class, but not all. The determiner of middle class is usually "built in" money, but often a lesser level of polish. I think of middle class as the typical person on the street. There isn't necessary a difference of values or morals, just a matter of opportunities available without concern.
10-08-2011, 03:23 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 607
My education is some years old but I remember being shocked when we were taught in sociology that middle class has to do with education and not money. You have to have a college education to be considered middle class in sociology. People who do not are low class no matter how well they are off financially and upper class is "old money" not money that is made from current work. At least that is what it was when I took sociology forty five years ago. Good luck.
10-08-2011, 06:35 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 697
"In my opinion, class terms are not "PC". You may not be considered in the upper class, but you are the one everyone turns to if they want something done. To me, that makes you upper or rich class. You support your fellow man(woman)"
It's not about anything PC, it's about the reality of peoples' lives. If the word "class" bothers you call it groups. There is a quantitative measure here. Even w/o the word class, you cannot realistically compare someone like Buffett, Gates, etc to some nameless person living under a bridge in this country.
This is all it is. THe "classes" in America (supposedly a classless society) are not based on birth titles, or birth order, they are simply based on money. That is the American way of it. Don't you find it amazing Americans talk about the cost of everything they own, but they never ever evertalk about the cash they have: back accts, paychecks, equity- youre family is a great example , growing up you "didnt know" what your family had.
I knew to the penny cus I wanted something one friday when I was in HS and my mom said no, and I teased for it and she got so mad she gave me her paycheck (she worked full time, so did dad) and said heres the bills, heres the grocery list go with your father and pay them and shop and see whats left! I knew exactly to the penny what class I fell in! I've never asked for anything of anyone again - not my parents (I put myself thru college) not my first husband nor the second now - and believe me the second could afford give me the moon twice if I asked for it -I pay the bills I make for me and dont look for anything I cannot afford myself.
negative amts to maybe 1000$ and you and your family arent even on the radar - if you do live under a bridge or in the back of your car you cannot even get public assistence, you need an address for that.
8000$ to 35,000$ (depending on the size of the family on the high end) and youre the "working poor". enough money to get from week to week with no fall back money, no savings, no money for drs, dentests, glasses. no vacations, no movies, no fast foods (and I say this remembering in 1989 - a few months before my hubs died - sitting in a car waiting on him and watching a tired beatup truck pull into McDs, 4 little kids get out, a mom and dad, the kids sat outside on the curb, the mom got out water in a jug, dad came out and passed out 4 plain hamburgers, and the kids lit up when they each got a 69C burger - the mom and dad had water -thats working poor in the USA), no education past HS, and you may or may not be very educated as a group here. This doesnt make you: an addict of any kind, it doesnt make you dirty, it doesnt make you lazy, it doesnt make you stupid and all the other preconcieved BS that people with money throw down. It simply makes you poor in America. You want to get ahead, you simply dont have the money to do it. (and, you do all know, when you earn less, if you get a CC you pay more for it, and if you can get a mortgage you also pay way more for it! of course, the reverse is also true - if you have tons of money you can have a CC for next to nothing and also, a mortgage is much cheaper - oh, and potential employers can access you credit reports and if you have shaking credit IE: NEED A JOB, you are much less likely to get ajob! if your credit is sterling, you'll get the job!)
The golden age of the middle class was right after WWII up to about the 70s. Jobs were plentiful, people bought homes, saved money, went on vacations, bought second homes, had all kinds of health coverages. The working poor grew into the solid lower middle, those in the lower middle moved up, and the upper middle went into a nice upper area. The middle class made this country! They were / are the small business people in every town, they are the local GPs, the animal vets, all the tech,the mechanics, the dental hygeneists,teachers, people who got 2 and 4 yr degrees, people with tech degrees, with skills. Theyve been the backbone of our population, 80% solid - then the floor fell out!
Jobs drained out of the country, first the lower middle - manufacturing jobs - the rest of us said, well, let them get something else, they all got paid too much anyway! then the solid middle, desk jobs, call jobs, people who never ever thought their jobs would melt overseas! what a shock! But, still those higher on the food chain said, well, they got paid too much! Now, its tech jobs, teachers, nurses, skilled people losing jobs. Funny, how when its your job its not you who ever got overpaid.
People in an upper bracket are few, maybe 10% of our population. The key indicator here is: this group never has to make every day life choices. (which bill to pay, what food to give up, what dr visit to not make, which pills to cut in half!)They can pretty much have it all. the rest of us, 80% of us, are not on their radar - they simply do not get what all the fuss over the economy is and what are people complaining about - all these people out of work, whats wrong with them, why dont they just go out and get jobs!
Well, we sure are going classless fast now - soon there will be just a few people with a ton of money and then all the rest of us. Pretty PC I would say. sharet
( class on the rest of the planet is denoted as a birthrite as in what caste you were born to in india, or what class of aristocracy you fall into in europe - regardless of what money you end up with. An earl is an earl even if hes broke, an untouchable is an untouchable even if he won a lottery. Here that was supposed to have been done away with, all men being equal and whatnot, but its a hard thing to beat out of a brain so our class involves money - in every other way we are all equal - old or new, won or stolen, group or bracket if its preferable)
It's not about anything PC, it's about the reality of peoples' lives. If the word "class" bothers you call it groups. There is a quantitative measure here. Even w/o the word class, you cannot realistically compare someone like Buffett, Gates, etc to some nameless person living under a bridge in this country.
This is all it is. THe "classes" in America (supposedly a classless society) are not based on birth titles, or birth order, they are simply based on money. That is the American way of it. Don't you find it amazing Americans talk about the cost of everything they own, but they never ever evertalk about the cash they have: back accts, paychecks, equity- youre family is a great example , growing up you "didnt know" what your family had.
I knew to the penny cus I wanted something one friday when I was in HS and my mom said no, and I teased for it and she got so mad she gave me her paycheck (she worked full time, so did dad) and said heres the bills, heres the grocery list go with your father and pay them and shop and see whats left! I knew exactly to the penny what class I fell in! I've never asked for anything of anyone again - not my parents (I put myself thru college) not my first husband nor the second now - and believe me the second could afford give me the moon twice if I asked for it -I pay the bills I make for me and dont look for anything I cannot afford myself.
negative amts to maybe 1000$ and you and your family arent even on the radar - if you do live under a bridge or in the back of your car you cannot even get public assistence, you need an address for that.
8000$ to 35,000$ (depending on the size of the family on the high end) and youre the "working poor". enough money to get from week to week with no fall back money, no savings, no money for drs, dentests, glasses. no vacations, no movies, no fast foods (and I say this remembering in 1989 - a few months before my hubs died - sitting in a car waiting on him and watching a tired beatup truck pull into McDs, 4 little kids get out, a mom and dad, the kids sat outside on the curb, the mom got out water in a jug, dad came out and passed out 4 plain hamburgers, and the kids lit up when they each got a 69C burger - the mom and dad had water -thats working poor in the USA), no education past HS, and you may or may not be very educated as a group here. This doesnt make you: an addict of any kind, it doesnt make you dirty, it doesnt make you lazy, it doesnt make you stupid and all the other preconcieved BS that people with money throw down. It simply makes you poor in America. You want to get ahead, you simply dont have the money to do it. (and, you do all know, when you earn less, if you get a CC you pay more for it, and if you can get a mortgage you also pay way more for it! of course, the reverse is also true - if you have tons of money you can have a CC for next to nothing and also, a mortgage is much cheaper - oh, and potential employers can access you credit reports and if you have shaking credit IE: NEED A JOB, you are much less likely to get ajob! if your credit is sterling, you'll get the job!)
The golden age of the middle class was right after WWII up to about the 70s. Jobs were plentiful, people bought homes, saved money, went on vacations, bought second homes, had all kinds of health coverages. The working poor grew into the solid lower middle, those in the lower middle moved up, and the upper middle went into a nice upper area. The middle class made this country! They were / are the small business people in every town, they are the local GPs, the animal vets, all the tech,the mechanics, the dental hygeneists,teachers, people who got 2 and 4 yr degrees, people with tech degrees, with skills. Theyve been the backbone of our population, 80% solid - then the floor fell out!
Jobs drained out of the country, first the lower middle - manufacturing jobs - the rest of us said, well, let them get something else, they all got paid too much anyway! then the solid middle, desk jobs, call jobs, people who never ever thought their jobs would melt overseas! what a shock! But, still those higher on the food chain said, well, they got paid too much! Now, its tech jobs, teachers, nurses, skilled people losing jobs. Funny, how when its your job its not you who ever got overpaid.
People in an upper bracket are few, maybe 10% of our population. The key indicator here is: this group never has to make every day life choices. (which bill to pay, what food to give up, what dr visit to not make, which pills to cut in half!)They can pretty much have it all. the rest of us, 80% of us, are not on their radar - they simply do not get what all the fuss over the economy is and what are people complaining about - all these people out of work, whats wrong with them, why dont they just go out and get jobs!
Well, we sure are going classless fast now - soon there will be just a few people with a ton of money and then all the rest of us. Pretty PC I would say. sharet
( class on the rest of the planet is denoted as a birthrite as in what caste you were born to in india, or what class of aristocracy you fall into in europe - regardless of what money you end up with. An earl is an earl even if hes broke, an untouchable is an untouchable even if he won a lottery. Here that was supposed to have been done away with, all men being equal and whatnot, but its a hard thing to beat out of a brain so our class involves money - in every other way we are all equal - old or new, won or stolen, group or bracket if its preferable)
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