A few people sent me PMs about recent changes to the General Chit-Chat and Personal Diaries and Announcements sections.
I would like to open a discussion about it and collect some ideas.

I talked to Patrice, and we decided to see if we can find a more suitable solution. If we get good ideas, we'll test them out to see what works best for individual users and the board as a whole.

If you want to post an argument for or against something, that's great. But please make sure to back your point of view with logical reasons and try to provide a solution. Please refrain from posting "empty" opinions such as "I like it" or "I don't like it" without any justification attached to it.

Below, you'll find some of the points/reasons that I have to keep in mind. So please read them, and let me know if you have any feedback that might help us form better guidelines.

I assembled those based on my experience of running this board. Please don't take it personally. I'm sure a lot of people are going to "recognize" themselves. And even more would do so mistakingly. The point of this post is to find a good solution to the real challenges of running a community, not to taunt anyone.

Common sense vs. strict guidelines

I'm a big fan of common sense, and I prefer not to use fine-grained guidelines at all. Instead, something rough, outlining intent, should be enough. After all, we are adults here, so we should be able to easily infer the "spirit" of a few general rules and act accordingly.

I'm sure everyone would agree and say the same thing about themselves. Who wants a million specific rules telling you what to do and what not to do? "Not me. I can think for myself."

For some reason when it comes to enforcing the "intent of the rules" people forget that they are fans of the common sense. Immediately, they want to see a specific rule that clearly prohibits the exact thing they were doing.

Some even start to pretend they don't understand what's going on. The adulthood evaporates somewhere and the kindergarten sets in :)

Here is just one example of what I'm talking about:

I ask people to not bump the topics. (Bumping is posting just a word, usually, "bump" to bring the topic back to the top of the recent list.) Bumping is bad because everyone who posted in the topic or enabled the "watch" will get an e-mail notification of a fresh reply. They'll re-visit the topic only to find a "bump" post there, and no new information. It's really annoying.

I say don't bump topics. They ask me why not? I explain why. They say it's not in the guidelines. I add it to the guidelines.

What do the common-sense-loving adults do then?

Instead of posting "bump" people start to post some other word or phrase with little informational value. The intent is still to bump the topic, yet since they don't post the word "bump" -- "it's not longer bumping, is it?"

And when I ask them not to do that, they shift into the kindergarten mode on me. After that, communicating further is pointless.

So I want to ask you to remain adults. When your actions get restrained by the administration, don't think about how to get around it (or how unfair it is), but instead think about the intent behind those decisions. It will make my and moderators' job a lot easier, and at the same time will cause a lot less disruption to your message board experience.

This brings me to my next point: trends and escalation. Every decision is made with the entire community in mind, not individual posters. So sharing my view about how things work on a larger scale, might explain why we manage things the way we do.

Escalation of joking (or anything else) on the board

I'm going to talk about jokes, but this can be said about many other topics.

Imagine the following situation. A small crowd of people is hanging out somewhere. They are having a conversation, and generally everything is fine.

Then, one person decides to make a somewhat vulgar joke. The joke pushes the line a bit, but it's still funny and not too offensive. Everyone laughs and the conversation continues.

A few minutes later, another person decides to top that joke with another one that pushes the line a bit further. It's still funny, and the crowd is still OK.

A few more minutes, and someone else makes another joke to top the previous one. And another one. And one more. And so on.

At this point, the conversation has degraded to an exchange of dirty jokes. While it might be fun to the people exchanging the jokes, it's no longer much fun for the rest of the crowd.

And since it happened "gradually", the people making the jokes don't seem to notice how bad things have gotten.

Now imagine a new person joining the crowd. What's that person's first impression?

Does she even want to stick around to learn what a wonderful group of people this crowd really is or will she simply move on based on what she just heard?

That's what happens in the GCC section with jokes. It's not the jokes themselves, but the fact that in a group of people, things tend to get escalated.

Although some jokes are definitely over the line and should be deleted right away, mostly the problem lies in the fact that once someone starts posting jokes, other people lose the sense of when enough is enough.

So the section gets filled with such topics.

Result? When it gets too far, someone's post get deleted. And that someone starts asking "why is my post deleted while other people's posts are still there?"

The same applies not just to jokes, but to any kind of discussions "positive" or "negative" that have a tendency to be escalated. Once a trend is formed, the only way to stop it is to break it.

If you don't want to read it, then don't open it

Often, I get the following argument from people who want more liberal guidelines on the board.

"If you don't want to read about something, then simply don't open that topic."

One person made an analogy about a newspaper where you can scan the headlines and then decide which articles to read.

In theory, it sounds great. But that doesn't work out they way it's supposed to.

The whole idea of "scanning" for the topics you want to read only works if the ratio of topics that interest you vs. all other topics is high. Sure you might want to skip a few topics here and there, because you know that you won't be interested in the contents based on the title.

But what if you open up General Chit-Chat, and see the first page listing posts about the stuff you don't want to read? You hit the next page and again get a list of topics you are not interested in.

What if there are only 2 or 3 topics out of 50 most recent ones that you want to read?

What if you are not interested in reading jokes, prayer requests, discussions about personal problems and so on? Yet, the first 3 pages of the GCC section are filled with them.

You'll end up spending more time reading and filtering out topic titles than you would spend actually reading and posting in topics that interest you.

And since everyone has different interests when it comes to General Chit-Chat, the only way to prevent such situation is to limit the topics of any specific nature from dominating the section. Which brings me back to the point about escalation.

Newspapers have strict editorial guidelines specifically so that everyone (in their target audience) will find something interesting to read. There are plenty of articles that get dropped by the editors and never make it to the issue.

Message boards are different. So it's either self-control or moderation.
I like the idea of self-control more and would like to avoid moderation.

But it seems like everyone thinks that they can squeeze "just one more post" in before things get out of line. And such thinking is perpetual. So we end up in a situation when another trend is being formed.

Not enough time to check all sections of the board

With the introduction of the PDA section for diaries, a few people told me that they don't have enough time to check all sections. They said it was more convenient to check only General Chit-Chat to catch up on all personal posts.

That's true. But there are also people who made the same (limited time) argument in support of the new section.

They said almost the same thing, but with the opposite outcome: "When everything is put in GCC, there isn't enough time to go through all the personal stuff I don't want to read to get to the other posts."

So it seems like either way would be good for some users and bad for others.

Attention seeking and negative posts

We love attention. That's human nature. Unfortunately, it's easier to get attention when you post about problems than when you post about achievements. In short, negative stuff gets higher response than positive stuff.

The more you complain about something, the more simpaty and attention you get from the friends you made on the board. And it's hard to stop posting more and more negative stuff when you get so much support about anything you post.

So people do what they naturally do and post about their problems, illnesses, bad luck and anything else that can get the response of others on the board.

Again, we get escalation -- a never-ending cycle that would consume the whole GCC section if left unchecked.

There are people who genuinely need help. There are people who really need to vent. There are real problems that need to be shared. But there are also people who post simply to get the replies. The latter is what I'm worried about.

I don't see a way of controlling it other than to prohibit such posts completely. An alternative would be to delete posts that I or the moderators feel don't "deserve" to be out there. This would not be a fair system, so I would like to avoid it.

Sharing on a personal level is what turns people into friends. So instead of completely prohibiting such posts or "randomly" deleting them, we set up the diary/personal section. Aside from other things, it allows people who really need help and support get it.

And if someone wants to troll around, they can do it in their dedicated diary section without affecting the experience of other message board users. Their friends can read it, while others won't have to go through the topic listings on daily basis.

Right now, I'm leaning towards allowing "positive" and "neutral" posts in GCC while containing "negative" posts in PDA. In part because negative posts seem to have higher "troll rate".

Separating posts like that might be a good compromise given what I said above.

If you have any suggestions/feedback about such approach, then please let me know.

My post is deleted

The most common response from users when a post gets deleted is this: "why did you delete my post when there are plenty of similar posts on the board?"

Some people take it personally. Some, even send links pointing out to similar discussions that weren't deleted.

Well, there is always one person at the end of the line. That's why it's the end of the line. Today, that person happened to be you.

If your post or topic got deleted because in the context of the entire message board it escalated things too far, then don't think of it as a personal attack on you.

Your post is "when" the moderators decided to put a stop to it. It could have been the previous post or the next one. But it just happened to be yours. Don't take it personally. And don't look at it in a vacuum, but instead look around at other posts on the board.

Was your post a continuation of some negative trend that's happening right now? Was it pushing the "established line" of posts next to it further? Yes? Then, that's the reason it was deleted. Simply to stop the trend of joking/religious discussions/personal problems, etc. from escalating even further.

That's why asking why your post got deleted while there are plenty of similar posts on the board is pointless.

This doesn't apply in situations when a post is clearly outrageous. It would get deleted simply because it should be deleted regardless of other posts. But in 90% of cases, deletions happen simply because things have gotten out of hand. And it just happened to be that your post or topic was the last one before the moderators put the foot down.

Personal vs. interesting

When setting up the PDA section, I first formulated the guidelines based on the concept of "interesting".

It seemed simple to me. If you think that what you are about to post would be interesting to the majority of users, then post it in GCC. If you think it would only be interesting to your close friends on the board, then post it in PDA.

That didn't work out well. Some people believe that everything they post is interesting to other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be posting it in the first place. On some level, it makes sense.

So we changed the guidelines to be based on the concept of "personal". If it's personal then post it in PDA, otherwise post in GCC.

That's not working out well either. Things like pictures of a new house or a description of a vacation trip or some interesting occurrence at work are personal in nature. But it could be argued that such posts are interesting to many users. So they should be in GCC, not in PDA.

If you can come up with a way to clearly formulate the gist of what's required to address all the points I mentioned -- without a huge list of "do's and don'ts" outlining every conceivable topic for discussion, then please let me know and we might adopt it as the official guidelines.

Let me start by saying I feel for you and Patrice; IMHO all of this has put both of you in a position that is completely unfair.

The only thing all of the problem posts outlined here have in common is that they are off topic. It's not that I am not interested in what is going on with people; finding the time to try to keep up with hundreds or thousands is an art I have yet to master. I have always used PMs to carry on topics that I felt weren't appropriate for the board. If I try to use the link for Recent Topics, a lot is filtered out - but I still miss posts. If I check Posts Since My Last Visit, I am bombarded. I go to the Main section, and the posts actually related to quilting seem to be dwindling. I, for one, came here to share my love of quilting, see new projects and read about all things quilting. Life events were in Chit Chat, but it was manageable. It's just not anymore.

I may be a minority of one, but I would like this to be The Quilting Board. I am not anyone's lawyer, business consultant, health practitioner, moral compass or conscience. My only advice in any situation such as those would be not to take advice from any Internet message board! If the off-topic posts are causing the problems, and we haven't done very well with policing ourselves, then the remedies are limited:

1) Have the moderators delete problem posts - unfairly putting a tremendous burden on a few instead of practicing discretion ourselves;
2) Isolating the problem type posts into a separate area, which obviously isn't working well because it allows the posting to continue to get out of hand; or
3) Eliminating it all together.

It is sad that it has come to this. I remember posts about Guam, totally off topic but I came away having learned about a different culture and a place I'll never go to (Thank you, Terri!) We can chit-chat about many, many things without getting too personal. The internet isn't the place for personal. Do you really know who I am? Do I really know who you are?

Just my nickel's worth :oops:

I had no idea that things were so problematical.

If you see a post this long and detailed from Admin, you can pretty much bet that it has been problematical - I doubt seriously that one or two complaints would garner this kind of attention.

I didn't read it as all being complaint oriented, and I don't mean this to say that at all. I can see the problems from sheer number of posts, server issues, moderator time issues, tone of the board in general issues, etc. - thinking of the board as a whole, not individually. ie: One off color joke multiplied by many = problem.

WOW OK
first admin PLEASE shave ;)
I know I have been "gone" so I really havent seen any problems. I know I posted a couple weeks ago about being laid off and it was moved. Patrice told me where it was and after I read the guidlines of the topic I was ok with it....hey I didnt even know there was a new PDA section ..cool idea.
I also know you wouldnt be doing this unless you have had a BUNCH of pms gripping about one thing or another....
Yes we are adults BUT it seems common sense rule is lost. We cant do it or I should say some wont do it for what ever reason.
Not to get political BUT without some law there can be NO FREEDOM.
With the laws there has to be consequenses since "we" are not taking responsiblity for our words and posts.
My only real suggestion would be to get 2 maybe 3 more mods to help Patrice out. I know shadow will be back and that would be 5 mods. Another board I am a member that does not have the numbers we do have that many and it works very well ...since both boads have people on different time zones.
I know it would help you and Patrice out to spread the work around. Maybe the "rest" of us could help by not responding once a thread gets out of hand....pm the poster a NICE note suggesting where a thread should go. I say NICE cuz I have seen some get a tad snappy over a slight misplaced thread or photo...Not to me I was just a reader.
This is OUR board and WE need to take responsiblity for what happens here.
We are suppose to be frineds/family yes we care about each other and want to be part of each others lives. But there are some on here who are the crazy uncle ( I know some of yall think I am him) yall still love him some just need to ignore and skip over. We have alot to learn from each other if we give each other the understanding and accpetance to express themselves. This is about sharing and growing.
Sorry but this seems to be happening on a lot of boards . :?

Yep. That's the core of the problem with many things not just jokes.

I agree with one of the previous posters that this is "the QUILTER'S Message Board. That being said, isn't the definition of General Chit-Chat that it is for NON-QUILTING related posts? If all you are interested in is Quilting, and you don't want to read non-quilting related posts, DON'T GO THERE!

I can see your point about many of the posts, especially such as "cute story" and the joke of the day. If those were coming into your e-mail inbox, you would have them sent directly to your spam folder. But some people evidently like them, and sometimes they are fun to read, so how about a separate folder under General Chit Chat called "Joke of the Day" or some such thing. Or, if you really like to post jokes and funny stories, post THEM in your diary section. Your friends will know where to look for them, and if you want to tell an off-color joke there, no one can object.

I do like the Diary section, and believe that it is a good place for us to be random, perhaps a little pithy, and express personal random opinions or tell personal stories or exchange information. There is a member who just got a new machine, and one of her board friends is teaching her how to use it. And NO, it is not a TUTE, it is an "OK, what next".

As far as news posts go, we all are aware that Farrah Fawcett/Michael Jackson/Cronkite and Elvis are dead, and Reuters and the AP do much better reporting.

I believe that much of the "complaining" has been that one person is responsible for determining if something is of "General" or Personal Interest based on their interests and beliefs, and that the rules are not being equally applied. I LOVE seeing barnbums postings about her foals, and based on the number of views and responses it is obvious that a whole lot of other people do to. I WANT to see photos of Guam and Spain and France and Australia and some beautiful places here in the U.S. I believe those, too are of general interest, but don't take my word for it, just look at the numbers of views and responses those posts get.

And that leads me to "bumping". I had never even heard the term before I read your post, Admin. And frankly, with all due respect, I think you are completely wrong. Sure sometimes people post only one word. Or even a smiley. But not to bump (reminds me of an old song). It is because SOMETIMES either that one word or smiley is enough to convey what they mean, or perhaps pretty much everything superlative has already been said/posted about that pretty quilt, but you want to let the poster know that you saw it and liked it, so one word will do. Or maybe it's because you really don't like the colors/pattern/workmanship/etc. but you know that the person did their best and you just want to be encouraging without gushing or lying. Or maybe, the post is an old one that you missed the first time and just found, or one that you are revisiting and now want to comment on.

Just my never to be humble opinion. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for all you do for the Board. Managing anything with a bunch of women is like herding cats, and we DO appreciate your efforts.

And those posts aren't the problem. I think they are appropriate for GCC. But right now, we are in the all-or-nothing situation because as I mentioned above, we changed the guidelines from "interesting" to "personal". It happened because some people... well, read above.

How would you formulate the guidelines to explain that the posts you outlined are welcome in GCC, without creating a long list with all possible topics a person can and can't post?

You misunderstood what I wrote :)

I never said that every single one-word post is an attempt to bump a topic.
As a matter of fact, majority of them aren't.

It's about the intent -- an example of people intentionally doing something to circumvent the guidelines.

We might get more mods, but how would that solve the problem of deciding what goes into GCC vs PDA?

I hear a lot of good points being made. Things that were easy to overlook when there were fifty new posts a day are swallowing me whole when every time I log in there are more than a hundred new posts. Call it growing pains.

Addressed earlier in the guidelines were other common sense things also overlooked. Some folks put tantalizing titles that have nothing to do with the contents. I see this trend growing lately, and I find it frustrating to open a post only to see a chain e-mail that has been circulating for 15 years.

The people I "know" are more from the chatroom. Whatever you've done there, Admin, is working just fine. Getting bumped off is no longer a daily given. A big Thank You there!

I also enjoy seeing quilt shows and the wider world I would otherwise not have access to.

I'm not sure you will ever convince the attention seekers that every utterance is not golden. It's the way they are in other areas of their lives, too. We all know folks like that.

My final thought is that some folks think everyone in the world has the same advantages as far as connections and equipment are concerned. If someone is only posting a link to a video that is not accessible to dial-up users, it would be considerate to add a couple sentences describing what it is about.

Theres my two cents.

Admin:How would you formulate the guidelines to explain that the posts you outlined are welcome in GCC, without creating a long list with all possible topics a person can and can't post?


What is it that you and most people find objectionable? Jokes, current events, fights with DH/BFF/Boss/Boyfriend, Funny thing my baby/husband/dog said/did? That covers a whole lot in just two lines. Surely a similarly condensed list can be developed. Then if the guidelines aren't followed, delete!


Admin: I never said that every single one-word post is an attempt to bump a topic.As a matter of fact, majority of them aren't. It's about the intent -- an example of people intentionally doing something to circumvent the guidelines.

If the majority of them aren't, then is there a real problem? Like I said before, most of us might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night! We can see which posts are questionable. But if you believe that a post was a deliberate zit, er, I mean, bump, then delete that particular post. The "bump-er" will eventually catch on. Or not. :wink:

Not the choice of topic itself, as much as the fact that people like to push the line just a bit farther than where it is at the moment. And it never ends. So eventually, it all gets out of hand.

Some topics simply generate such behavior in people for some reason.

Let's look at this hypothetical scenario.

One person creates a topic about having a bad day, say, a fight with her boyfriend.
Right after that, another person creates a topic about her own bad day -- her boss yelled at her and threatened to fire her.
Then, someone else creates yet another topic describing how her day was even worse. And so on.

In a short while, it begins to look like a competition of who can post the most negative stuff and get more sympathetic replies.

Even though, the topics are independent of each other, it's clear (simply by the timing of them) that one of them "inspires" the next one.

And then, the sheer volume consumes the whole GCC section.

Similar dynamics can be observed with jokes.

But I don't see such behavior with pictures of Guam, for example :)

As I posted above. Negative stuff seems to "spread out" at a much higher rate.

We might end up having to go by the list of topics instead of some general guideline, but I would like to avoid it if possible.

Admin, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there is any way to determine what posts belong where without human intervention - so someone has to read them, balance them against some sort of 'rule' and make a judgment call. No matter what that call is, someone is not going to be happy and will, eventually, be accused of not applying rules fairly. Pardon me for not applying for that particular job.

The 'rules' is what is at issue here. gaigai, by your earlier post I would have said that the sewing machine posts belong in the Main section, where people who could help would see it; it is quilting related, after all. See how the 'rules' get fuzzy? Multiply that by several hundred posts, and you can begin to see what Moderator's go through. The Moderator(s) may not have had any problem with, to use your example, barnbum's posts remaining in Chit Chat where they have always been - but the posts may have well been moved so that everyone was being treated the same, and if one wasn't then I assumed they hadn't gotten to it (that was my first thought, anyway, when I saw threads being moved.)

As for the idea to "just not go there" - people are busy, and will quit trying to sort through hundreds of posts. There is a reason subject boards limit or don't allow off topic posts. Why is it that I should not go there; it could just as easily be said 'don't post there." Is one any more right than the other?

There is a tone on the board of late that is disturbing - downright mean statements, negative comments about all sorts of things. This is new; this board has always been a positive place. Admin was making a very valid point about people trying to circumvent guidelines, making them even harder to apply fairly. I'm pretty sure he didn't deserve the answer he got.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say, since it is 11:09 p.m. here, admin. i read every word of your message, but I did not read all of everybody's.
Admin, after reading your explanations, a lot of stuff is so much clearer to me than ever, and that is what I want to point out, something that I have always been a firm believer in....communication.
I don't have all the answers, this is a tough job. I use to be a moderator.
It's communication that opens up the way to solutions. We can't read each others minds, but it seems that so many are scared senseless to say anything, and I don't blame them. They don't want to be pointed out or chastised for being "negative". In the real world, and the world of adults, 'negative' stuff happens. I agree, not to let it be an end in itself.
Don't throw a negative out without at least some idea of a solution, or ask for some. In order to do that, you have to let ppl communicate with each other.
I saw a reply several months back, where some stuff had happened, and a member stood up and gave a fresh 'view' on it, and she was somewhat, 'hand spanked', but she had a very good point. She said she put it on the board on purpose, bc she wanted to know what other members thought.
Everyone is forced to either 'run the other way', go pm and vent to a buddy, or stuff it down. I'm very fortunate to be able to roll with it, most of the time, but I do hear about not so happy views, and think, nothing will get done, or change for the better of all, if there is no communication.
What's the worst that will happen, if there are opposing views? There's not going to be any physicality. i don't think we can throttle each other thru our monitors. sorry, but is kind of funny.
We can have discussion. that is exactly what we are doing right now, and nobody is getting their lights punched out.
I understand escalation, admin, you did an excellent job of explaining that, and I can't argue with it. I don't want to argue anyway, lol.
I just think that we are going from one extreme to another. On one end you have overboard/escalating threads...and then on the other end of the spectrum, is timidity, walking on eggshells, unhappy bc you don't want to be a boat-rocker.
Ok, the board takes more time to check out now. I accept it. I will have to prioritize, to make good use of my time.
General chit-chat: here is my view on that. Adults take turns. I don't get that a person could check out two pages of posts and not find anything interesting. If the majority enjoys a thread about somebody's new house or trip etc. then roll with it.
You can't please everybody. It's impossible.
You got something you think is MORE interesting than what your seeing? - post it.
I guess I must be quirky, bc I am not best buds with every single person on this board, although I feel friendly to all...but I hardly ever see anything that I am completely not interested in. I can support ppl, without it having to be a 5 star entertainment value. This is not show business, we are fellow board members. Can't we be ok with each other's topics. Let's practice some tolerance.
I for one, don't think anyone on this board posts anything, to be offensive, hurtful, insensitive etc. so what were they thinking, and who were they trying to reach?
PDA is good. Some are more expressive. hmmm, wonder who is like that? :roll:
I liked the pets etc. on chit chat, and the birthdays, and wedding announcements etc. bc these are important events that are interesting, and I hate to miss them. Why would that bother anyone. I don't get it.
But it did, obviously, so, I know where to look.
Sorry so long...my solution, sounds so simple, but I am not being facetious: let's all lighten up.

To be perfectly honest, as someone who is relatively new to this board (but has been online forever, and has been on this board pretty much every day since I joined), I don't see a big problem. If you're getting a bunch of complaining e-mails from a vocal few, than the thing to do is politely ignore them.

Really.

I've been online for years and years. I have belonged to a whole bunch of different message boards. On some, I lasted less than a day. On others, I've been around for over 5 years. This is one of the better ones I've been on.

In the few months I've been here, with *one* exception, I haven't seen any objectionable content. That said, I avoid General Chit-Chat and the Personal Diaries forums. Because I know, from long experience, that that's where the "my baby did something cute" and "my boss is mean" posts are, and I'm not interested in them.

My experience on message boards has taught me this:

1. Moderated boards are great. It's hell to be a moderator. Moderators get no thanks and lots of flack. The good ones have learned to deal with the flack for the good of the board.

2. Even moderated boards need a place for people to blow off steam. The "General Chat" sections inevitably turns into that place. Lock a thread when it gets out of hand, and don't apologize for doing so.

You don't need to write new rules, you just need to enforce your own standards. You're providing a wonderful place for us to get together and work together and support each other and make new friends and learn. Everyone here should be thanking you from the bottom of their hearts for that. Don't apologize for your standards, just make them the rule. It will make the board a better place.

In my 15+ years being online, there's only one other message board as well run as this one (check out http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ if you're interested). You're doing a fantastic job. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Jan

That was my original intent, but as I said, it's not working out. People can't objectively judge how interesting their own posts are. None of us can. Or at least it seems that way.

Roben actually hit it right on the mark with the post above. So I'll quote it:

I want to formulate the standards before enforcing them. Otherwise, any actions by me of the moderators (according to our own reasoning) would seem random (and unfair) to the users. And that would naturally frustrate a lot of people.

I’m still fairly new in interacting on this board, and am very happy to have it as a resource for quilting questions and discussions. A big THANK YOU.

I, for one, was happy when the new PDA section was implemented, as I’m one of those people who just doesn’t deal well with personal problems, my own or others. Some of the stories about illness and losses really trigger my depression, especially when there is no real tangible way to help. Real life can be awful sometimes, and adding other people's awfuls makes me feel even worse. I like the idea of those being in a separate location that I can either peruse or avoid for that reason.

As for the escalations, using jokes as an example, I sort of thought that was part of what GCC was for (and have posted jokes, because that's what I've seen), but now understand how it could take over the whole page. Another board that I belonged to had a separate thread for Funnies, and people would post jokes there. Then, if we needed a laugh, we could look at the thread. If we only had a limited amount of time to catch up on the board we could skip it till another time. Perhaps not having it come up on “Recent Posts” could be doable. I believe the jokes should be something that you wouldn’t be embarrassed about if your mother, father, kids or grandkids were standing next to you when you told it. If they're off-color, you can pm the members you know would appreciate them and not find them offensive, or perhaps put May Offend in the subject line so members can skip it if they choose.

For the dilemma of “what to post in GCC” I favor the idea of the scope of it to be positive messages that everyone would enjoy, like finding goodies at a garage sale, or pictures of your corner of the world, or funny things your pets or grandkids did, or a brief story of your vacation. Sort of like the part of the paper that has the “soft” news. This section could then be viewed, or not.

As far as the escalations on other posts, if it’s being positive and interesting to all, it seems fine. Granted, none of us would like to see a whole page of cute pets or a whole page of vacation stories at once and have to scroll back a couple pages to see something else. But there again, we should be able to be aware of the “look and feel” of the board. If we’re going to be the fifth post in a row with a picture of our pet, we should/could hold off until later. Take turns.

I personally wouldn’t mind having some rules/guidelines, for the sake of the board and our Admins, but that presumes that everyone will actually adhere to them, which apparently isn’t happening. If we each were accountable for our own posts – where they are posted – what they contain – and how others may react to them, things would be fine. Think about your post and really think about whether it's for everyone. Will it make people feel better or worse? Bottom line, we just need to let others have the same experience on the board that we want to have. And as long as I'm on my soapbox my personal pet peave is posts that just say “Help.” I’d like to know if it’s a topic where I could actually provide or gain knowledge. Much of this is already spelled out in the How To Use This Forum section. Along with the no-bump rule. If there are threads that Admin feels should perhaps be tacked to the top, rather than getting the constant bumps, that may help that complaint. I like the topic of "Explain Your Name" and would like to see it at the top of GCC like the Word Association game so new members see it and can contribute to it. It's been a fun way to learn about people...and is consistently being bumped to keep it in sight. If certain threads are being repeatedly bumped, Admin can make a unilateral decision on whether to tack it at the top of the page or to scold the bumpers.

We need to remember that we’re constantly getting new members – like me – who learn what they see, which isn’t necessarily the best way to learn how to interact here. Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to try to explain my reasoning. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

The board HAS changed. Most message boards do about every 6 months, which isn't a bad thing.
The bad thing that has changed about the board is mainly what is being posted, so Admin MOVED most items in Chit-Chat to a Diary. I wholeheartedly agree with that. If you want to banter on and on, the diary is the place to be. Off-color jokes are where those should be also. I've seen my fill of off-color jokes here and on other boards and I don't appreciate them. The problem, I think and it's a HUGE problem is.....some aren't thinking when they post. It's nice to be able to "talk" to friends like you do over the phone or in person, but on a message board, the tone of the talk has to be a bit nicer...I think that's the word I'm looking for, not sure. You have to remember...ALOT of people read the posts. Some post, some don't, but it doesn't mean that what you said about someone who is having a bad day or the joke you posted didn't offend them. I was always told that if it's something that would offend me, then don't say it or type it. I have VERY thick skin, so I do let some things just roll.

This is how CHIT CHAT used to be. Was a nice place where you could go on a vacation for a few minutes and forget about your life for a few minutes. You could get a small history lesson or even just a lesson in love from looking at someone's pets, be it cats, dogs, horses or birds.
You could wish someone Happy Birthday or Happy Anniversary and make them smile for the day because that person has a whole lot of people giving them wishes.

Now, in order to view pets or see birthdays/anniversaries there is ONE thread ....not good. A person has to scroll thru entire pages to see whose birthday it is or whose birthday they missed. Or scroll thru pages to see someones pets. Sad......
In order to take that little vacation.....which the only people who will know about it are the ones who visit your diary.....you have to sift thru pages of someone's diary to find it.
I was on another thread and someone was asking about a picture that was posted on a persons diary. The person who "owned" the diary told them it was on page 48 or something like that. THAT diary has over 60 pages now. A person would have to sit for hours to find it if they didn't know where it was.
I for one, don't have hours and hours to scan diaries for things.
I liked it when someone would post Happy Birthday in a thread to someone.
I liked it when I could take a vacation to Spain.
I liked it when people would ask me all sorts of questions about life on Guam.
I liked it when people would ask me about my pets and I would ask them about theirs.....I think that's interesting to a whole lot of people and shouldn't be hidden in the Diary section.

My solution? Well.....
....What about a section for Vacations/Trips/Where I live.
People could post there about where they've been and such. It would be a dedicated section like Main, Introduce Yourself, Chit Chat...etc
....The same could go for pets. Have a dedication section for that.
....Jokes should stay in the diary...my opinion. Some of them coming thru are skirting the line, if you ask me.

But, not just ONE thread where a person has to read thru pages to find out something.

These are just my suggestions.

But that is part of the problem. You are NOT doing all or nothing. A cute story about some foals gets deleted, but a post about how someone was tickled because their adult son made a comment stay.


And as far as intents go, Admin, you are wonderful, and talented and tall, dark and hairy :D but I never before knew you were a mind-reader! And that wasn't meant to be sarcastic, really. How do you KNOW a person's intent? If you think a person is doing something deliberately, call them on it and/or delete the post. But don't assume that you know what they are thinking. You know what assume stands for. (OK, that was sarcastic)


I thought the board functioned pretty well before all the new changes. But if people don't want to read about a good wishes request for someone who has had a personal crisis, or doesn't like jokes, etc. create two or three new topics. How about "Funnies" for jokes, etc., and "Life Happens" or "Milestones" for good and bad life events. Leave the diary section, it's a good place to be random, pointless, and even off-color, if a person wants.

And in response to the person who thought the machine stuff should be on the board, you missed the point. That new owner wasn't ASKING for input from anyone else on the board or she would have put it there. This was a one-on-one assistance.

I think this is a good idea about the "May Offend" or some such thing. But whether or not you would tell your (insert family member) depends on your family. Some families may be "Cleavers", while some families are "South Park". How about, it wouldn't offend if you told it at a Church Social. And I admit to having to say mea culpae over that one.

WOW whole lot of discussion going on here, will try and keep it brief.

I love this board but don't feel that I spend enough time on it or contribute enough to put forward my opinions on content and rules etc.

I would like to give feedback though,

I agree with Terri's comments about GCC, ...I miss it too, since the Personal Diaries were introduced. I find that I am reading less threads and posting fewer comments, as I find it laborious scanning through pages of info on each person (sorry!). Even if you click on the last page to get the most recent updates, you usually have to 'backtrack' to pick up the beginning of the latest subject.

When this was all on GCC, you knew that the most recent posts were at the top of the page, and after a few days they would naturally 'drop off' the front page after most people had read it and everyone who wanted to had commented on it. Anything new in someone's life would appear at the top of the page, it was just 'natural' to read the things at the top, an easy notification that the person had something new to share. I do miss that.

As for suggestions/solutions....eh (shrugs in exasperation) Admin I feel you are in such a difficult position as you are NEVER going to please us all. Having more, specific sections for jokes/diaries etc may be a solution, am not sure. Sorry I can't come up with anything more constructive, but I did want to give you my feedback on the GCC vs Personal Diaries debate.

That would make the problem go away.
It can be controlled by deleting new posts when things get too far. But then, I'm sure a lot of people whose posts get deleted will complain about it.

Yes, that's a valid point.

Nope. Adding more sections would make it even worse. It would take even more time to find and catch up with what's happening in all those sections.

I don't, and I never said I do.

Hmm--I'll keep it to the point.

1. The off color stuff was the only thing making it unpleasant here. I like the suggestion of adding "may offend" in the title (IF it MUST be posted). There was never enough info to know it was something I didn't want to read. And it was growing in frequency.

2. I did get tired of all the bad news, but I didn't open them.

3. If I opened a topic and it had turned to just a banter of words back and forth--I closed it fast. I couldn't even follow the mare stare post (but understand it was the nature of keeping awake).

4. I love the idea of posting positive or neutral topics in GCC and save the depressing/personal stuff for the diaries.

5. My time on this forum is limited, so I stick to Pictures mostly, but I loved sharing horse/flower, etc photos because they brought joy to the folks on here and frankly, I have very few others to really share them with.

6. I love the idea of asking the readers what to do--but this does give you more to have to digest. Thanks.

PS I had the assisted living folks here yesterday for a horse show--so if it's decided it can go here, I'll post the illustrated story. :wink:

Let me start by saying , I love this board and would never have dreamed a place like this could exist. I so do appreciate all the hard work that you and the moderators put into it.
However I miss the stories that were up lifting, from other parts of our world. I loved the horses and the pets and the pictures from around the world that we used to be able to see.
I don't come here to become depressed by other's problems, not that I don't care, because I do, but this place is a sort of escape for me. When I tune in here, it is to get support about quilting and to be inspired by others work. I try not to bring my personal problems here, and do try to be supportive to others. I was one that stayed up at night for the mare stare, and enjoyed it. I saw 2 healthy foals brought into this world, never dreaming that would be possible. Yesterday, Joanne lost a foal and the mother, and those of us who were familiar with them, could tell her how sorry we were.
this board is so full of work horses, those who hold the exchanges, or who organize a small gift for someone. I try to participate in these.
I don't like going to GCC and becoming depressed, that part I do not miss being there.
I don't know what the answer is, but someone has to step up and make the choices, what is proper for GCC and what isn't., and I don't think that has been met yet. Do I have the answers/ NO, no way, but , I do miss the things we were able to enjoy on there before.
AS for the diaries, I do have one, and I do try to keep it as a place to ask for help and useful information, and I have learned so much about my new toy, by just having a place to ask for help. So I also want them to stay. I can understand why so many don't have time, when you are still raising a family, or working.
Is this place perfect? No, no way, but it is still the best there is our there, and I for one am thankful for that!

I have to admit that I've tried to stay out of the fray here, but I'll voice my opinion for what its worth. I am a long time user of the board and I think a fairly frequent poster. I love the board, but lately...not so much for these reasons.

Recently some (well, almost all) of the threads I started were hijacked and being taken over by some of the issues that Admin addressed...off color jokes. I like to laugh as much as the next guy, but these just went too far. That was solved by the introduction of the PDA section. Thats good although I just don't have time to go there and read everyone's posts. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by them thinking, well, she posts on theirs, but not on mine...so I just don't go there at all.

I am totally confused now by the "rules" for the GCC section. I no longer feel like I can post anything not quilt related...don't know how to judge what might or might not be"interesting" to the majority of the users...so I just don't start a thread. I feel like if the foal threads with the huge number of views and posts are being deemed "not interesting to the majority", then nothing that I have is "interestng" either. That makes the board not as much of an enjoyable place as it has been in the past.

I don't care for the birthday..get well...sections. I can't keep up with scrolling through all the pages to find out who I should be sending wishes to! I enjoyed being able to do that in the GCC section previously. I think Terri explained that well and I agree with her feelings, not just about these sections, but about the other vacation type pictures as well.

I did start coming to the board to learn about quilting issues and I still do that. However, I also come to the board to learn about other places, people and things that I don't come into contact with everyday, like the walk through villages in Spain, Terri's trip around Guam, even her encounters with the boogie monster! These are fun and interesting threads. Why can't we still post like that?

The "feel" of the board lately has gotten to be more of a "police" state which I don't care for. This should be a place where we can come and freely share with each other..not where we think if we post something that it will be deleted, moved, or we will get out hand slapped. Afterall, we are adults. I think that the actions of a few are impacting the activities of the whole. These issues should be dealt with on a personal level...via pm.

Just my opinions for what its worth. I obviously still come here daily. :D

I have changed my daily routine recently but think this thread is so important, I set my timer to come back and just read this.
I am so glad that I did.
I just learned that someone I think very highly of, and would never want to offend or 'bother', has been very gracious, but also sending mixed signals. Maybe I am a little naive, too.
I apologize for my verbosity when I type :oops: . It's a life long thing I have had to work on, and always will. I will not stop trying, as it's my problem, and I really don't mean to make it anybody else's. If I add comments to something, and you come back and respond positively to me, then I think your ok with it, or even enjoying yourself.
Because of 'open' discussion, I am learning that one of the things ppl are concerned about, is having their own thread deleted or scolded, not bc of something they did, but someone on their thread.
Until recently, it never crossed my mind, that something you say on someone else's thread could jeaopardize that person's whole thread. I am going to practice broader thinking and consideration.
I would like to point out one more thing. I may be offtrack, but from some things I read this morning, we have had a lot of new changes in a very short period of time.
I love the PDA section, and I think it has solved a lot of problems. It would be unfair, for ppl to think everything that has happened since it was started, is 'because' of PDA.
Some ppl immediately felt that having the new PDA section was like being treated like a child...send them to the backroom...hide the embarrassing etc....so they refused to go there. That's ok. That is how they feel.
I absolutely embraced it, as soon as I saw it. It suits my personality, and many others. Each person can make their space whatever they want it to be, and for those that don't go there, and think it is just a place where a lot of useless, garbage can worthy stuff is abundant...I am very proud to say, that although maybe only interesting to us "neighbors"...it is not full of degenerates. It's actually very funny, informative to me, and as far as I have seen, not off color at all. People are behaving very well, and getting along famously.
Please do not blame that section, or these ppl, for all the changes since.
We have no control over the other changes.
I wish we would have open discussions like this more often, as I hear things, constructive opinions and ideas, that I never thought about.
I think it is healthy and keeps ppl aware that we each need to come out of our, me-focus, which is unintentional, but human.
This exchange helps us to understand each other and our board better.

Yes, someone else mentioned a similar thing happening. It's as if we have little "gangs" that roam around the board raiding topics on random :)

Which is a pretty good argument against the people who say that everything was OK before the changes, and that "nothing was broken".

Part of the reason for the PDA section was to give them the space to have fun without affecting the reading/posting experience of other users.

I think a lot of people feel the same way. That's why I started this discussion. It's happening because we don't have well-defined guidelines. And it's not possible to either use or to moderate the section if nobody has a clear idea of what it is we are trying to accomplish. I guess that's the reason some people aren't happy with recent moderation decisions.

I agree that there is no point in even having the GCC section if nobody posts in it because the rules are too strict. But the community needs a place for general discussion, so we need to find a way to make it work -- if not for everybody then at least for the majority of people.

So far, I have the following list of base points:

- Positive/neutral discussion topics (the kinds of topics that don't have a tendency to spin out of control) would go into GCC.
- Negative topics would go into PDA. Those almost always end up "inspiring" more negative topics from other people.
- Jokes are fine in GCC as long as there aren't too many of them floating around "at this point in time" and as long as they are not over the line. That would be a judgment call of the moderators. There is no other way around it.
- The same goes for all other kinds of posts. When it begins to seem like a flood of copycat topics is emerging, posts will be deleted. Again, that's a judgment call for the moderators.

Anybody who is posting a joke (or raiding another person's topic) should be mentally prepared to see her post deleted. Hopefully, people will learn not to take deletions of such posts personally.

As I said, in most cases if you look at a post in a vacuum, it might not seem like a big deal. But when looked at in the context of other posts and topics that are floating around "right now", it's easier to see the problem.

Please submit more feedback, and soon we'll test the next round of changes.

************************************

I want to address this reply for my own understanding. Hope it helps more than me.

member: You got something you think is MORE interesting than what your seeing? - post it.
admin: That was my original intent, but as I said, it's not working out. People can't objectively judge how interesting their own posts are. None of us can. Or at least it seems that way.

Since as humans, we cannot read minds, this has to be a judgement call, and the only answer I can think of...is reader tolerance.
What am I missing? What am I reading, and supporting, that is bothering so many,...and who are "they"? who are, where are,...all these 'bothered' ppl?
Speak up, and say exactly, what is wrong with threads, so we can understand.
Just as, if I for example, write a thread, and get many positive responses, I would also, re-think my contributions, if my stuff were being ignored etc.
Just as we need to be considerate when posting, we also need to be considerate when reading. It's a two way street.
Ppl are unique, and bring all sorts of different stuff to the table.
Do you, any of you, really, truly, believe that someone took the time to consider, assemble, and type out, a whole thread, just to get in your craw? really?
Can you not at least imagine, that this subject, or these pictures, to them, were interesting enough, that they believed others would enjoy or be benefitted also?
You will never come up with a perfect formulation for chit-chat. It's an individualized thing, and I think we need to all look at the number of views, and replies and use that as our guide as to what is most beneficial to a large number. I am going to start paying more attention to those.

admin, etc.:quote]I liked the pets etc. on chit chat, and the birthdays, and wedding announcements etc. bc these are important events that are interesting, and I hate to miss them. Why would that bother anyone. I don't get it. [/quote]

Roben actually hit it right on the mark with the post above. So I'll quote it:

member: the posts have been moved, so that everyone was being treated the same...
ok, maybe I am being dense...so I'll just say, 'duh"...I don't understand.
Enlighten me, please.
Who was not being treated the same as who, and in what way?
I am not complaining. I can go click on the new section, and find the pets to show my gbabies and to enjoy myself, not criticising...I sincerely don't know what the issue was with this. Please fill me in, bc it must be something that was heard about in pm's, and we have no idea what that is?

I like your ideas so far, Admin.
Like I said in my previous post....
I'd like to be able to see people post pictures of where they live, etc. Spain, Australia, France, and yes, even Guam are far away places that others will never be able to visit in their wildest dreams and being able to post them in a forum such as Chit Chat would be great to have again.

That also goes for the pets too, such as Barnbum with her foals and her flowers. She has beautiful gardens and I know that I'm not the only one that appreciates it when she posts her "little slice of heaven" for all to see.

I do have an idea that might work when it comes to something major in someone's life, such as a death of a spouse/immediate family member, birth of a child/grand child......Have the person who is wanting to post, send a PM with the pertinant info to either you (Admin) or Mod and have them post it under a locked thread. That way, no other posts are made and others can see it, then PM the person their condolances or congrats. You just don't know HOW MANY PMs go out when something like that happens looking for addresses/ideas on something to do for that person. And pretty much everyone KNOWS who to PM for addresses, right people? :)

As to Mare Stare, I will admit that some of the posts did get a bit off topic, but we (as the group of starers) did try to bring it back around to some sort of normalcy, but when you survive on little or no sleep, you get a bit punchy. Mare Stare had ALOT of people coming in to see what was going on with the chatter about the mare and I think ....ok, I'm hoping that next year we can have it again back in Chit Chat. I would be willing to be a moderator for that thread and smack hands/mouths if someone got off tangent a little too far.

With regards to jokes.....some are ok, some are not. Some are borderline offensive, but even putting in "OFFENSIVE" in the topic, still is not a good thing, to me. I remember one day, I signed on and the first 10 threads were jokes. I think jokes should either have their own section or be limited (somehow) to so many per day/per person. And, NONE should in any way be offensive to anyone.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

Admin, you are trying to do what is best, I know it's hard for you.....
I think we should all send you some nice squishys :) :)

WOW I have sat here this morning and read every word of this. There are some great points being made. There are also some I do not agree with. I love this board. I am pretty new but I have made good friends (I think). I don't mind hearing of bad things in people's lives. That is what makes us humans. And the ability to help someone with advice or encouragement makes us friends. The "rose colored glasses" board idea is unrealistic in my opinion. If all I wanted was quilting help then I would stick to YOUTUBE and the like, but here I can get both help and "human interaction". I don't really like the segmentation that has been going on but I see the need for it. I don't like the idea of a few policing all of us but again I see the need. More rules would make more problems. My view is that we don't sometimes see that things are getting out of control. Things look different from inside of a situation then they do from outside so.....

Admin you would like some suggestions on making this a better board. Well here are mine:

1. You need tools. Like caution flags. If something is taking a bad turn then throw the caution flag on to show the posters that they need to check themselves. Maybe three levels before a deleted thread. Then no one is blindsided by a deleted thread. They would know it was coming. If someone doesn't agree with the caution flag they can take the point up off line with you one on one through a PM.

2. A calendar. If you can put up a calendar and the posters can choose to enter their BD's or anniversaries and the like for others to view and send best wishes via diaries or PM. One stop shopping as it were.

3. A "stay at the top" option for a limited amount of time on a new thread. A check box that if checked would alert a moderator to review for approval. If approved it would stay at the top for X amount of time and if not it would just be another normal thread.

I know all of these thing require more work for you in the beginning, but I think they may make the moderators job easier in the end. Plus it would be more fair for all I feel.

I think the Moderators do a marvelous job and I would not want that job for myself. Thanks

Firstly, thanks for giving us the opportunity to have our say openly on the board.

With regards to jokes and banter crossing a line, the problem is, ‘being offended’ is such a personal thing that it’s difficult to second guess others’ reactions (outside the obviously offensive such as sexism, racism and the use of foul language). I can tell a certain joke to my DH but wouldn’t tell the same joke to my mother, for example, but I KNOW them so am able to judge better. Here, the audience is so wide that it’s impossible to judge how everyone will react. Maybe create a SINGLE ‘café’ for joke telling and banter where of course there are still limits in place to meet the family rating of the site but that those who don’t appreciate this kind of humour can avoid – something between the chatroom and the main board. This tends to happen anyway as exchanges shift from one person’s diary page to another. Maybe if this was introduced, the diary pages would run more like bulletin boards and become more manageable.

When the PDA was introduced, I was one of the first to open my own thread. I’ve lately asked for it to be removed. It just wasn’t working for me. I felt it took too much time to check round all the threads of everyone I consider my friends – everyone seemed ‘scattered around’ and I lost that sense of community. I also feel that because most of the banter has moved to PDA, the personality of the board as a whole has changed and I don’t like the change. I do see the advantage of PDA, for example with the current machine training that Gai refers to. PDA is a tool, it’s up to us how or if we use it. But it shouldn’t be used as a ‘dumping ground’ for everything that someone thinks doesn’t ‘fit’ on the main board.

Removing GCC from Recent Topics is fine I think. It ensures the focus remains on quilting but is available to those who want to chat about other things as well. I do feel that some of the decisions regarding relevancy and what has been moved to PDA have been wrong. I LOVE to see photos of where others live, their locale, their gardens, their pets etc. It’s one of the big pluses of being such an international board. Maybe the answer is stricter guidelines about thread titles, so the content is immediately obvious eg ‘My Garden’ or ‘My Newborn Grandson’. That and the poster’s name gives everyone a clear choice as to whether they’ll find that interesting.

IMO Mare Stare should NOT be in PDA. It is the most viewed thread on the board, many friendships have been formed there, the polls have attracted lots of participants and have resulted in fabric being shared all across the world. It is FAR more than ‘one person’s horse’ as has been stated. And it’s only ONE thread ! Thank you Terri for your offer to moderate that thread in future – it’s very generous of you and I for one support that idea.

With regards to what you term ‘negative posts’ – yes I have read things on here that have made me very upset. But this is a community and we all live in the real world. Bad stuff happens to people. And a lot of people draw a lot of emotional support from their friends here on the board, support which is freely and generously given. It also soothes me enormously that I am given the opportunity to ‘do something’ when I hear of someone in need – make a block for a joint project, send a card or whatever. Isn’t that sharing and community effort one of the most wonderful features of this board ?

As for the ‘attention seekers’ – I think most of us are smart enough to spot those a mile off. And who’s to say they’re to be criticised for WANTING a little attention anyway ? The internet is the only link to the outside world and chance of friendship many people have. If the ‘bad stuff’ is moved to one section, I think this will only serve to ENCOURAGE more of this behaviour. It’s like offering a special place just for attention seeking ! I had no problem with it being in GCC. Again, maybe more accurate naming of thread titles would alleviate the problem.

As for posts being deleted – of course that will happen from time to time. The only thing I would like to say is that I trust the judgement of Admin and the moderators to remove stuff that steps over the line. I hope that if I write a post and someone complains that my post is not removed merely as a reaction to a complaint. To me that says ‘the complainant’s feelings and opinion have more value than yours’ – and that just isn’t fair or right.

I've been thinking about some things for some time.
I've been wishing for subheadings under the main headings:
for instance it would be nice to have subheadings under the main heading where posts about:
how to choose a new sewing machine;
questions about choosing long arm machines;
quilting basics;
applicique techniques;
piecing techniques--hand/machine could be further subheadings

Then when someone opened the main topic area, they could choose a specific area --AND we might have fewer posts that ask the same question over and over....... : ) and posts would be easier to find......and you'd certainly have fewer to slog thru to find the particular question you need an answer to.......because you'd only need to search thru ONE sub area rather than EVERY post in a given current section.

In the recipes section, subheadings could be just like you find in cookbook:
main dishes;
desserts;
side dishes, etc

the same principle could be applied to the General chit chat section
if there were subheadings, it would help one choose if they wanted to cruise thru a particular sub-area or not.........
for instance:
if there were a Prayer requests sub area, those who object to prayer would not have to enter, they could just go right on by to the Joke section or a Good News section, or a YOU NAME IT section! : )

In the long run, it would create fewer pages in the lead headings and would make things easier to find.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

Ginny

what is "troll rate" ?

Who decides what is funny/amusing?

I think George Carlin, Bob Newhart and Jeff Foxworthy are hilarious. I don't much care for the Marx Brothers or the Three Stooges.

I think Two and a Half Men is sometimes funny - but often not in very good taste.

I think the human/animal body is an awesome, wonderful creation - but some of the functions are considered taboo for general discussion - or at least some words used to describe them are - but some of the situations are funny - at least to the observer!

A lot has to do with the words selected - a different image comes up with each of the following: fluffy, chubby, curvy, robust, flabby, obese, gross, fat, overweight- etc.

I think some of the old age/senior citizens things are funny (I'm 68) but some of the situations depicted aren't funny at all - example: why am I here and what was I doing? sort of jokes - or body malfunction/dysfunction jokes -

Some of them are in the "If I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying" category

Personal postings

quiltingcrazy (sorry if I got your nickname wrong) wrote a long post about her ADHD and other things - it was informative and got a LOT of positive response - was it FUN reading it? NO. Am I glad she posted it? YES

I would never have bothered to look for it in the PDA -

If there is only one thing I would like people to change - that would be to put more info in the Subject line.

Examples: My Mom Died, Everything Went Wrong This Morning, How Do I Miter a Corner, Mini Horse Pictures, Funny Video Link about Cats, which ruler do you prefer?

Would it be possible for the moderators or Admin to change the subject line?

wow, who knew there was such an issue on the forum.

i have pretty thick skin and can take care of myself on forums. i have to say i fall into the camp of "don't read it".

if you look at my history, i mainly stay with quilting topics - it takes 2 seconds to scan "read new messages since my last visit" and i open up the topics that appeal to me.


have people used the forum to promote/grow there quilting business without paying admin to do so, no doubt

have some jokes gone to far, no doubt

have some hospital pics been to graphic, no doubt


rules can be made and they will be broken but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make them and enforce them.

you already have enough rules, enforce them, if the offending people don't stop cancel their account - its that simple.

use the 3 strikes your out rule. this will give everyone fair warning and stop the offending behavior rather quickly.

I'm really new here and don't feel like my input is worth alot but I would have to agree with K3N all the way. It is confusing now. She said the things I wanted to and I wish I could articulate like her.

I am one that had my post moved because it was in the wrong place. My only issue with that is that I finally had to ASK if it was posted wrong before I could get an explanation and have it moved. It seems everyone else knew I had posted wrong because I didn't get a single comment till it was moved. A simple pm would have been all I needed to correct my mistake. Most of us are not babies and are willing to learn how to use the forum properly without being offended.

I really love this board! I have come from one that is slowly dying off and all the traffic here is wonderful to see. One of the best parts is the Recent Topics for me. It's the one I lurked at before joining here. I wish it had a second page so I wouldn't miss anything. There is so much to see here! I hope you find the right solution soon. I can't imagine how difficult it is to keep us all in line. I'm sure all of us are here are willing to work within the new guidelines as soon as we learn the ropes.

Thanks Jenell! :D I'm glad you call me 'articulate' and not 'verbose'!
I was worried I wrote too long a post - that is actually an edited version that I worked on most of the day! :D

That's true. But the negative topics seem to spawn more negative topics by other users. The more bad stuff some people post about their lives, the more bad stuff others start to post about theirs. So the problem of sheer volume arises. It's one thing to talk about rose colored glasses, but it's a completely different thing when over half of the topics in GCC are about real bad problems.

It seems that it's one way of the other. Either not have them at all or have the section flooded with such topics.

The same is with jokes. Joke posts seem to spawn more joke posts. And things get out of control quickly.

Please keep the above point in mind. It's the core of the issue. Not who gets offended by what!

I'll consider it. Thanks.

Yes. That's why I think discussing what's allowed and what's not is pointless. Making it completely G-rated would be as good as completely closing down the section.

How does spotting the attention seeker solve the problem of flooding the section?

Until every single user on the board starts ignoring the attention seekers, they will continue posting. And you know that's not going to happen.

So the fact that you can spot those a mile away doesn't really address the problem.

Nothing wrong with that, if it's just one person doing it. In a vacuum, most things seem like no big deal. When you multiply it by 100, then you start to see a potential problem.

I don't see a problem with people actively seeking attention inside their own PDA dedicated topic.

Those who like the poster's content can continue reading it. And those who don't, never have to open that ONE topic ever again.

The problem is solved.

It's a rather unique case. But I agree, it would be OK to stay in GCC if we proceed with the next round of changes.

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that it's the topics that "inspire" similar new topics are the root of the problem. And with mare stare, it's not likely to happen.

If we were to get a flood of "cat stare", "dog stare", "elephant stare" and "turtle stare" inspired by the mare stare, we would have seen it posted by now :)

I don't think we'll be able to decide on a standard for jokes.
It's about quantity.

One really spicy joke might be more amusing than 20 G-rated ones flooding the section.

So trying to set some allowed rating won't do much good, aside from the content most people would agree is inappropriate.

I already ask people to write descriptive titles for their topics. But that's more to do with the Main section. It's really much better to have a title "How Do I Miter a Corner" than "help me". Yet, people seem to ignore it.

As for the GCC, I don't think titles would help much.

Imagine opening the section and seeing the list of titles:
- My Mom died
- I Wrecked My Car and Now in a Wheelchair
- I Just Got Fired With No Severance
....
....
and another 10 titles like that.

You might not want to click on them to read them. You've been warned about the contents. That part is solved. But if you keep seeing titles like that day after day, eventually, you'll probably stop coming to the GCC section at all.

Again, it seems to be about quantity.

I'm afraid that might plant some fear into people's minds and deter many from posting at all.
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that people who would refrain from posting would be people who are least likely to cause any problems. While those who are the "worst offenders" would be doing it anyway.

If someone is oblivious to the fact that their posting negatively affects other users and the board as a whole, warning them won't do much good. They simply won't know it's about them.

And those who do keep the readers in mind, don't let their own posts get to far on their own, without any strikes.

as far as "negative/downer" postings go -

it seems that the nightly news has been going on for years and years and years - and it hasn't been cancelled yet - and people still seem to tune in (I tune out, and my husband falls asleep, but he turns it on)

it seemed to me that the "tag-along" postings were meant in a "hey, you're not alone" way - or "I've been there, done that - so I can really relate" way

maybe I'm incorrect in that line of thinking??