I'm not a parent or a grandparent but I did teach for 30 years so I feel qualified to have an opinion. I feel that children are like vines - you have to train them in the way you want them to grow. If a child is allowed to get away with bratty behavior when he/she is young, then they will grow up thinking that they can get whatever they want with that kind of behavior. They should be taught manners early and how to get along with others. Parents who encourage bratty behavior in their children by letting them away with it are only making a rod for their own back.

I'm glad to hear there is a grandma out there that doesn't give in to screaming and tantrums. Kudos to you. :)

I have 10 grand children and in my house it is my rules. Also when my kids were home as long as I paid the bills and thye lived here it also was by my rules. No questions asked

first off I am going to admit I did not read this whole thread. But this is what I do My grandson and his parents moved into my home for 6 months when he was 2 He got put in time out EVERYTIME he did something he wasn't supposed to he is now 6 and respects my rules. I also do it with the now 3 year old even in their home. I catch you it is time out. They both still can get away with things with mom but my son is a little stricter. She is learning from my role modeling. I do not ask permission, I just react quickly. But then I taught discipline in my job so it is natural for me. At one p[point my DDIL was upset about it but now she thanks me for being consistent. She can see how they behave around me.

She is exhausted and it is easier to give in then to discipline try to talk with her again. Take her to lunch just the 2 of you. I am not a grandma but a mom in her shoes. I have a 5 yo and my older kids one day just had a fit because I was so tired and because of a back injury I was in pain. I told them to give in. There response opened my eyes. The kids are so close in age I would just bet she is so tired she doesnt want to deal with the screaming. I know that advice coming from mom is hard she is trying to be you and if you are giving her advice then she feels like she has failed. Maybe give her some me days and I bet with more time to get herself recoverd she would be able to deal better with the 2 year old.

Pam, my best wishes to you. It looks like you've received some great advice here.

Omak, you are so wise. I need to meet you in person some day. :-D

My degree is in elem.ed. and I taught in early childhood for 10 years - 4/5 yr olds for 5 years, then newborns-2yr olds for 5 years. I now have two boys of my own ages 4 & 6. When my first was born, my mom took great offense that I was doing things differently than she had, as if I were criticizing her mothering or calling her a failure. No so - I simply had much background experience to pull from to make the choices we thought were best. My MIL was very respectful of our choices because she was willing to listen to our sound reasoning behind them and did her best to support them even at her home. As the boys have grown, we've received only praise from all of our parents. They've been with us in public when strangers comment on how polite and well-mannered our kids are. Our kids aren't perfect of course, but the're learning to be respectful and to be proud of their behavior. Nothing can compare to intrinsic motivation. It pleases us very much that not only are our children well-behaved, but that our parents are proud of us as well.

NOW - we're having to tell the grandparents to not give in all the time! LOL. We have to remind them, "It's okay to say 'No'".

Oh, one other thing: when our children were born, we welcomed them as PART of our family, not RULERS of our family. A thing I think many parents reverse these days. No pedestals in our house simply for being young and cute.

we just started having GKS, I was very happy to see the parents of the 3yo DGS giving him little time-outs, ignoring him when he tries to get their goat, and (My favorite) responding to whining by saying, "I can't understand what you're saying when you talk like that"!!!

They've been with us in public when strangers comment on how polite and well-mannered our kids are.
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My sister came to visit for TG and we were shopping in the grocery store. There was a tired looking young black lady with her husband shopping, but they had 4 kids who stayed with them and moved out of the way of others when daddy waved his hand at them. They stayed together and ASKEd if they could have some small treat, which was laid in the basket and not touched again, though there were longing looks from the kids. Sister and I went over and congratulated them in how well their kids were trained. They looked surprised first and then pleased.
(No one has ever complained about being told this).
We both make a point of telling parents of well mannered children this in public, especially in front of families with brats running wild and screaming because they don't get what they want. Fast food joints, high end restaurants, grocery stores, etc, all of them have bad mannered kids running wild. Only exception we see all the time are the Mennonite kids. Back home we had the Amish, but sadly, most folks want to "be their children's friends". Friends are equal, me, I'm their Mother and boss, right after Daddy.

They've been with us in public when strangers comment on how polite and well-mannered our kids are.
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I bet you really made their day!! :thumbup: Everyone involved benefits from this. It's great for the parents to be given a boost, for the kids to hear that their good behavior shows, and also for the kids to hear the parents values supported by others.

It's a difficult situation, but I would go with the "my house - my rules". And I would say so. I've always done that with my nieces and nephews and now with my own grandkids.

If you find a solution, please let me know. My grandbabies are 5 & 6. If they are here with only me and hubby I can discipline them, usually does no good. I tell mom and dad later what happened since they are old enough to tell. Mom's look could kill me, dad's is one of satisfaction. The problem is, she is my daughter and she gets mad at me. I told her from the very beginning, my house, my rules, if you don't like it, keep them home. My husband disagrees with me and only causes more problems. Let me know when you find the solution. I stay frustrated.

Life is pretty simple.
If people are going to be angry with you - - let it be for the right reasons.
My mom used to tell me that she faced a higher judge than I regarding my discipline (when I was being raised). Until you become a parent you never understand how much you are responsible for.
If daughter gives you looks that can kill, it suggests to me that she has some growing up to do. Until we learn to yield to authority, we really don't do a good job of brandishing authority over others.
Maybe daughter is learning a new respect for you - - as in you are taking stands you didn't use to? Perhaps showing more individualism than she understood you had?
And, an interesting thing I found with my adult children - - when they want ME to do what I do, they come around. When they don't want to HEAR ME - - they go find someone else to talk to <g> - - after all these years, they know who I am and they have a choice - - deal with mom or find someone who thinks more like you.
Does that make sense? <wave>

I adore my one and only grand but when she was two she became Miss Queen of the World over night. Her mom and dad, me and DH ignored her completely when she threw a fit and when she did calm down she was taken straight to bed and told she must be tired from all that crying so she had to go to sleep. It didn't take long for Grand to realize if she threw a fit she had to go to bed. Kids have to realize bad behavior brings consequences they do not want. Grand is now 13 and you can see her little brain working before she responds negatively to her parents. LOL

When my 45 year old son was 3 he tried to throw a tantrum in a grocery store. I walked over to the drinking fountain, filled a little paper cup and splashed him in the face with the water. He never did it again and from then on was a little gentleman when we were in a store.

my dd started at 18 mos holding her breath and suposedly pass out when things did not go her way. I would just catch her and wait. this went on until age 2 she pulled away from me , fell hit a curb and put her bottom teeth thro her lip. Never again did she hold her breath.

the doctor said to ignore and once she gets hurt, it will will stop. He was right.

Nope I speak my mind weather my kids like it or not. Just like the two year old needs to learn so do the adult children, and yes my parents to give me unwanted advice. They are older and they have been there. Advice is just that advice, take it or leave it. If your offended then I guess you need more advice on how not to be offended. I'm sure theres a tactful way to handle this situation, but I tend not to be tactful, my house my things my rules.

I have been thinking and went back to the original start of this thread to see if my responses have been directly in line with what Pam was asking.
Having read it again, I saw something else that I had not considered.
If you don't step in to defend the 3yo, you are teaching him that he is not worth as much as the baby ... so that would be a very good reason to intervene. You can counsel daughter as you have, and, I think you should - - if she doesn't want to hear it, she won't be coming around.
I was noticing the laptop story, and I thought - - why would grandma allow a baby to threaten her in any way, shape, or form.
I know that you maintained control of the mouse because you were bigger and stronger than the baby was, but he is growing - - and you aren't. One of these days, he will be able to wrestle the mouse away from you, and when he decides to hit you, it will be your fault that you got hit because if you had just given it to him in the first place, he wouldn't have had to hit you (the reasoning of a bully and abuser).
My father told me (while we working animals) what is cute when they are babies, isn't cute when they are 1200 pounds, and you have to always train with the final size and product in mind. (The same is true of humans - - I have probably stressed this before ...)
Grabbing YOUR mouse is rude - - and, you have the right to keep your own property and no one has the right to take it from you ...
You need to be secure enough in your own personage that you can tell your daughter, "Honey, I love you, and I love the kids, but as human beings, that littlest one is not very likable ... we need to find a way to train him so that others will enjoy being around him. No matter the age, there is no excuse for bad behavior." <wave>

What Omak is saying. So much truth and wisdom in this.

Isn't it tough? My rule was always along the lines of "this is my house and here you will behave this way" When my DD started to object, I just asked her how she turned out!

NO WAY!!!!!!!! When my young god daughter came over from Canada for a visit with her parents who totally gave into her, she screamed and screamed and even frightened my dogs ----SO, the next tme she did it I screamed louder in her face, she was SO shocked AND I told her/them I would continue to do this every time she did, surprisingly after we had silence; children MUST NOT be allowed their own way and should be put back on the correct one.

Been there, done that. When in my children's, and grandchildren's homes I try very hard to keep my big mouth shut. However, if I am watching the children at their homes or when they are in my home I do as I deem necessary. My home is my turf and unruly children are not appreciated. I think you did well to not give in to the 2 year old in your own home. Many young mothers just don't want the stress of disaplining (sp) the children and go for the quick fix. You, on the other hand, went for the lasting lesson. Bravo!!!

I recieved plenty of "swats" from my favorite grandparnts both gone now. My happiest memories are of times with them. Ahhhh how times have changed.
I do not have grandkids and I fear if my sons have kids with women that allow this behavior it wont be pretty.To answer your question No I personally could never allow it to go on at my home .I have friends with young children that I have had to leave their homes early when visiting because of the bullying that was going on with 2and 3 year olds.Whew this is a sticky situation for you.
Rae

Yeah that "its unfair" sure does get tiresome. When we hear that now we say "It's an imperfect world" as many times they say it's unfair.

At this point both of my GS are living with me. Their parents KNOW if I tell the child to do/not to do something it better mind. I put them in the corner for time out and swat their behind if needed (rarely). Both of them know if I start counting that they are in deep dodo. They answer me with yes mam, and use please and thank you. Parents are amazed that I can take the 4 yr old to the grocery store. He is a very picky eater and will put items back on the shelf out of the buggy because he doesn't want them. He did this 1 time with me and I got down on 1 knee in right in front of his face and politely explained that what I put in the buggy stayed in the buggy did we understand each other or did we have to go to the car and discuss it further? He now pushes the buggy and helps me "find" food. He knows that he doesn't have to eat it but it has to go home with us for PaPaw.
The 9 yr old lives between 3 houses (my house Sun night thru Fri morning & Mom or Dad Fri night to Sun evening).I make sure he goes to school everyday and does his homework. Parents tried to tell me what his "rules" were and I told them as long as Their child lived with me & DH and I paid his bills then I would make the rules at my house and he would abide by them and since they "could not look after him" they had no say in the matter. When he comes in on Sunday evening he yells, Mimi, I'm home as he comes in the door. He is developmentally delayed and thrives on the structure of knowing what time he has to get up, that he is going to eat 3 meals a day and is to have his teeth brushed and be in bed at 9pm. I am taking this hard line with the GS because I tried to be Mother, Father & friend to my DS and they became self centered grown up brats. I don't want a repeat of my mistakes.......

Trust me, his future kindergarten teacher, will not appreciate his being allowed to do whatever he wants and never being disciplined. Speak up now before a small problem becomes a huge problem. You can't imagine how many kids come to school with no idea at all about how to behave around other people.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Mimito2 -- well said.
And, Quiltmania, it sounds like the voice of experience from you, also.
In the end, all we can do is try.
For some of us, the "hardline" of discipline flies in the face of reason (our reasoning), and perhaps we have to make some adjustments to what we have considered the "right way" ...
What is at stake is the minds and hearts of children - - way too important for false pride and willful avoidance of taking a stand.
I say that we have proof of DR Spock's silliness abounding around us - - it is time we start living like we have learned from his ignorance so that our children do not have to wander in the wilderness of anti-socialism.
As far as taking a village to raise a child - - don't you believe it! It takes a FAMILY to raise a child. A family of a variety of talented, capable adults who share input for the sake of the child.

I so agree with Amma,Minito2.... very well said
And Quiltmani

Pam,
I have a 4 yr old and a 3 yr old. The tantrums are normal. I will say that I have your attitude about tantrums... when my oldest was almost 3 he threw a tantrum in Home Depot. I left him crying there on the floor much to the dismay of many customers and my husband. That was his last tantrum.

My 3 yr old still has them. The funny thing is the oldest says "Lucian if you throw a tantrum, you won't get it anyway" lol.

Hopefully, your daughter will see that she is making the problem worse by reinforcing the tantrum.

As for the advice.... ask her if she wants advice... in a random way. She always has the option to ignore it.

Many years ago I heard a story from an older woman when the subject of child behavior came up.

There was this old lady who had had 7 children and had raised them in a house filled with lovely antiques. After they grew up a visitor complimented her on keeping her valuable antiques so lovely in spite of all those children.

The old lady merely laughed. "My dear," she said, "Keeping the house nice was easy, because in my family, most of the polish was on the children!"

I have been thinking some more (again <g>) ...
people think that little kids don't think ... have you ever sat and thought just when a kid can form a cogent thought and act upon it?
I was six months old when my parents took me to the ranch in Izee ... when we went back when I was in the eighth grade, a told them all sorts of things that happened when I was there.
I remembered being carried by my father up on the hills and looking down over the ranch house. I remembered the room they had put me to bed in ...
I had this memory of my mother saying to me: Eat that cereal or I will dump it on your head.
She turned back to the sink to do dishes, and I looked at her for a second and thought: "You will not!"
I must have said something because the next thing I knew, I was looking at the world through Rice Krispies and milk!
Almost forty years later, I finally asked my mom about the incident (her face went white!) she asked if I really remembered it.
"Yes, but I never figured out how you got me ready for school after all that mess ...."
She said: getting you ready for school was no problem because you didn't go to school.
I said: Oh! It was on a weekend, then?
Again, she asked me: Do you REALLY remember that happening?
I said: Yes! You were at the sink over there, and I was sitting right here, facing this way .....
and, that is when she told me - - "I didn't get you ready for school because you were only eighteen months old, and I don't believe you can remember that@"
well, I can, and I did! especially that part where I reasoned out that she wouldn't DARE dump that cereal on my head!
If an 18 month old can form a thought that she can remember for decades ... isn't it time we start realizing that babies aren't babies long before we are willing to let them grow up? and, start holding them somewhat accountable for their actions ... or at least understand that they are thinking, and maybe we ought to help them think a bit more clearly. <wave>

It was Grandma's house, and Grandma's knick-knack, so Grandma was well within her rights to deliver the spanking! I know my Grandma wasn't above dealing out spankings to my brother or I when we deserved it.

I agree that Grandma was well within her rights to administer the spanking. I had gotten the impression that Daddy was just standing around watching the whole thing.

I think reaction should follow action as closely as possible when a child is acting up.