It can be a little tricky walking the fine line between being a grandma and a mother. My grandson, who is not quite 2 years old, is getting a little out of hand, in my opinion. It's not too awfully bad yet but he will do things like try to take something from his 3 year old brother and if he doesn't get it he SCREAMS, at a very high pitch, at the top of his lungs and starts edging towards a tantrum. My daughter just tells the 3 year old to give it to him. That's wrong several ways... give into the 2 year old and not sticking up for the 3 year old.

I said, as gently as I could, that she shouldn't give into his screaming. It teaches him that if he does it, he gets what he wants. She didn't appreciate that and I may just need to not say anything more.

That doesn't mean that I have to give into it though. They came to visit on Sunday for a little bit and I was looking up something for us on my laptop that is on my ottoman. The 2 year old wanted the laptop, I wouldn't let him touch it. He then literally was trying to pry my hand off of the mouse because he wanted it. I didn't say a word, just kept my hand there and wouldn't let him have it. Boy, did he get mad. Not a full-blown tantrum but yelling, fussing, crawled up on mama and twisting all around.

I know young people don't want advise and I don't want to be the mother that tries to tell my daughter how to raise her children. On the other hand, we all learn from those before us and my mother would have, and did, correct my children too.

Do you just bite your tongue in this situation?

That's got to be hard for you, Pam. I don't have GC but you are so right about giving in to him. We both know your daughter will pay for it down the road.
What about your house =your rules??

That's a tough one. I don't have any grandkids yet (first one due in May) I will have to watch and see what the answers are.

With our Grandkids, we discipline then just like we did their parents.

Then after that we "sugar" them up and send them home......LOL

I'm not a mom but I do the same thing with my neice. She bats her eyes and everyone gives into her every time. So one night she was having a sleep over at our house and didn't eat her dinner... I was grabbing some ice for her brother, he hit his head and we were going to put some ice on it and saw some cookie dough in the freezer. She tried to take it and I said no. She doesn't try that with me any more.

One of my sisters, years ago, said that her son was much better mannered after I made the comment that "NO one ever loves a brat". And when he gets in school the other kids will smack the tar out of him, they have ways of getting even with brats.

She started training him at about 3 years old and he's the most charming gentleman you can imagine at age 44 or so. And he's also a guard in a prison, so he's not a meek guy either.

My youngest daughter tried the screaming and hurling herself on the floor and holding her breath. I simply dumped the water from a vase of flowers on her head and stood there, clapping at her antics. She got so mad at that she got up and sulked in her room for a while, then came out all friendly again.

I know how hard it is when you can see so clearly what needs to be done, but his mama won't listen.

Tantrums are typical for this age group, but you are so right! How you handle them determines what the child learns. If he is always given his own way...it is giving him the wrong message - throw tantrum = get own way, and he will take this into adolescence and adulthood. Of course you already know that but you voiced your concern, and I guess for now, just have to make attempts to correct him the proper way when he is in your home or you are baby sitting.

It is definitely a fine line to walk between gram and mom....best of luck.

Love it! Score one for mom!

I guess I am strange because I actually ask my mom for advice on how to control my kids. That's the problem now a days. No discipline! If the mom doesn't step in now and not let the 2 yrold have what ever he wants the 3 yro will take care of it by himself in a couple of years. It will come down to the older one saying to his parents 'you let him have everything, you love him more' or worse yet the 3 yrold regressing into doing the same actions to get what he wants. I mean why not! It works for his little bro!
These ppl that don't want help from ppl that have been there done that are just crazy!! Why make the same mistakes that have already been made! Good luck and like Sue said above your house your rules. If you don't like it there's the door. Don't let it hit ya where the good Lord split ya!!

Of course I would not put up with it if he was alone with me but it's a bit different when mama is sitting right there and/or I am at her house.

I also have a 10 year old granddaughter who would not pull the things with me that she does with her mother. She used to have the habit of EVERY SINGLE PLACE we/she would go, she absolutely HAD to use the restroom. I started to see it for what it was. She could make the adults do what she wanted, interrupt dinner at a restaurant, whatever, by making them take her to the bathroom.

I took her out to brunch one day, all was fine, and I happened to be looking at her when she saw the door to the bathrooms. She immediately said, "I have to go to the bathroom." I told her she could wait, I wasn't leaving my meal to get cold and she could finish eating first. She sulked for a few minutes and then totally forgot about it. She doesn't do that with me anymore.

Sounds like the children need to learn that just because "they want" doesn't mean they will get.
I agree, your home "YOUR RULES!"
Was their mom raised where if she threw a temper tantrum she got what she wanted to get her to quiet down? I was wondering why she allowed her kids to act in such a manner. That is what she is teaching her kids by letting them treat her this way.
You had every right to say NO to the child, Laptops are NOT toys.

My house, my rules... My grands/other kids learned from the get go that amma doesn't put up with nonsense :wink: If you stand firm on what they can/can't do or get away with at your house, they soon catch on.
They all quickly learned, good behavior equals good times with me... bad behavior does not get rewarded. Most all will choose to behave :D:D:D

I have had to gently remind parents that the opposite is true too, their house and their rules :wink: I can choose how long to stay if things get too crazy :D:D:D

My sister's grandchild threw terrible trantrums. They continued until he was about 4. One day when he threw himself on the floor and screamed and thrashed around, she got down on the floor right beside him and did the same thing. He stopped and looked at her and got up and went on his way. She said he never threw another trantum when she had him. I can just see her lying on the floor kicking and screaming.

Absolutely she was not raised that way, it's my daughter. I knew to not give into tantrums and none of my three children were like this.

My kids still joke about "that look". My son did/said something recently, don't remember what it was, and I looked at him because it was inappropriate. My eldest daughter started cracking up and said, "Ooooohhhh! You just got the MOM LOOK." That look where they know they better stop whatever they're doing or face the wrath of Mom!

How about keep a little supply of treats in your purse(candy, small toys, etc) and when 3yo has to give up something to 2yo, give the 3yo a little something "Just for him". And don't let him give it to 2yo, insist it is for the 3yo.

This can get much worse - I used to do flea markets. One day, a dad, 8yo boy and 10yo girl were looking at my junk. Girl picked up a little $1 item to buy - suncatcher. Boy saw it and insisted HE wanted it, proceeded to whine and make life miserable until dad said, let him have it (Major wimp). The girl was very nice about it but I could see she was used to this.
The next time I saw them, it was a couple of months later, I told the girl to pick out a piece of jewelry (I always had a selection of costume jewelry, $1 and under) and I gave it to her. I told her why and she really appreciated it. I figured jewelry would be safe from brother's tantrums.

I think my Mom threw water on me and set me out on the porch by myself when I was throwing a tantrum, too.

Funny thing is, I don't remember having the tantrum.

I think you can suggest - at daughter's house - but that's probably as far as you can go there.

However, at your house - whether daughter's there or not - YOUR rules/guidelines.

I totally agree that letting children have whatever they want and giving into their demands just creates a demanding, selfish, and entitled adult.

I used to work cleaning houses a LONG time ago and I remember this one house that had 3 children. There was a boy about 17, a girl 15, and a boy about 10. That 10 year old was the king of the house. He had the largest of the secondary bedrooms (very large), the girl had one so small that I had to scoot sideways to get between the bed and the dresser and maybe 3 feet on the other side. The 10 year old also had a big stash of toys in his parent's HUGE bedroom because he also played in there. He was a bully and a tyrant with the other two children and his mother let him.

I bet he wasn't very well liked at school either.

so sorry. i used to get spankings for everything my older Sister did!! so i know how the younger child feels.
As a Grandmother and mother, kids don't get away with things at my house. My Son called me a stearn mother. well I was! but if i'd had 5 kids, the one who did the bad thing would get the punishment. and if no one owned up to it, they all would. like going to their room or sitting in a corner. although i did spank my son. hardly did any good though. stubborn but good kid-thank goodness.

I am Very lucky in that department..Because i take care of my Grandchildren during the day, they Know what they can do and what they can't! When they are here there are RULES and Consequenses. At home they can do whatever they may but not at Gramma's house! It's funny because they still always want to come here!! Kids NEED boundaries to feel secure but parents today just want "happy" kids....Good Luck with that :!: My kids know that if they are unhappy with the care of their kids while at my house, then they can keep them home Never be "held hostage" over Grandchildren!

Grandma's house, Grandma's rules!!! =)

GOOD for you! Shes going to have her hands full very soon! And so will the the little one someday when he hits life full in the face! 8-)

Yes, Grandma's house, Grandma's rules. I'll make sure that's followed with the youngest one too.

Reminds me of a man-friend (in his late 50's) telling me of when his daughter was little and they were visiting his grandmother. His daughter was messing around and his grandmother told her to stop. She didn't and broke one of her nick-nacks.

In his words, "It did my heart good to see my daughter get a good, old-fashioned, Oklahoma spanking."

I love what you did for that little girl. She may never forget your kindness :) It amazes me what people do to keep their kids from tantrums. Whoever said that nobody loves a brat is absolutely right. And it's not even the brat's fault. They were raised that way :(

I think Daddy should have given the spanking - not Grandma!

When our youngest granddaughter was here visiting from thousands of miles away, she would throw the most terrible temper tantrums - - I just was sooo disgusted!
At one point, I told the parents "Don't hesitate to beat her on my account!"
I didn't understand it, but I sure didn't like it much.
A year or so later, I went to stay with the family for about three weeks.
After watching what was happening to her while they "took care of her" and the mind games they played while making her think she was in control ... it was AWFUL!
I came home and told my family: "If I had known what was going on in that girl's life when she visited last, I would have sat down and cried with her!"
Things like: she would want to take a certain toy with her to day care - - they wouldn't put it away, they would just "forget" it ...
after a full day at day care, she was rushed to a fast food place to play in the play center until she was exhausted ...
There were a lot of things going on in her life that I couldn't have imagined, and it was pretty much perpetrated by adults who had a lot to do - - a small child not being one of them.
Working parents also have a problem with guilt for leaving their kids at day care all of the time, so they over compensate.
When they were here, she pitched a fit out in the field, and I walked off ... was a bit surprised that she was out there in the middle of nowhere, crying at the top of her lungs, and NO ONE looked out the window to see why she was crying!
Lots of needs not being met ... little kids can't articulate their pain, but they can make a lot of noise trying to get the point across.
I agree with the grandmother who wrote - - when they are at my house, they will play by my rules, and I will discipline them ... but, then, if you know what is happening in their daily lives, you might get a different perspective and solution <wave>

I have no grand children yet but do have 14 children. I think you handled it gracefully and I think your house your rules is normal. If I had people visiting I would tell the parents to deal with their child and that I was not about to give my lap top. Sometimes as parents we are too lazy or prefer to be our child's friend over doing the right thing. also you mentioned your daughter was upset about you talking to her. I find sometimes I am upset because some one is right. It is a hard position.

Good luck, I deal with this every day. I have many pre-school DGKs and 3 DIL's. I am the wicked MIL! LOL.

Trust your judgement.

This is an interesting thread for me. I have a 16-month-old who is just beginning to learn tantrums. My husband and I just stay calm and he stops quickly since it isn't working (I know this won't always be the case!). However, my mom gives into everything with him! Want to play with the lamp, ok just let Nana hold it still for you while you beat on it. Then he gets upset when Mommy and Daddy don't let him do the same :)

And yes giving into tantrums definitely creates self-centeredness...I have a 17 year-old brother who is living proof! (no plan after graduation as Mom typically saves the day)

Stick to your guns, Pam. No one appreciates a brat.

As gently and honestly as you can, inform your daughter that his behavior is not allowed at your house. She should remember from her own childhood and appreciate the "my house, my rules" axiom. Accept no rebuttal or "threats" in response.

You know something that might work for you? It was something my mother did until we left home, but it will probably work for you <g>
Whenever we would get really rambunctious, my mom would say: If you have that much energy, then you get out and clean the slab (or some other form of work)
What she was doing was teaching us to re-direct our energy into positive production.
Of course we were overworked! Of course we resented being told to do work! But, she still managed to teach us how to handle our energy in more positive ways.
Now, I watch a lot of RFD-TV, especially the horse training series ... and, one of the keys is: If the horse wants to show you his heels (shows disrespect) or acts up in some other appropriate way, start sending him around the round pen at a trot and then do some other exercises with him.
The key is: I can make you do something besides what you want to do (a good lesson for humans to learn, too) ...
One of the things I did with my children was: When they would act inappropriately, I would send them to their room until they could come out and be civil.
i started that at an extremely young age, so that by the time they could walk, they knew when I sent them to their room, that there was a way to get back out.
An example would be: Baby boy starts to pitch a fit. Mommy tells him to go pick up that little blue bear and bring it to the toy box.
As far as grandma giving in to JR ... you MUST intervene. She is interfering in a different way and she is old enough to understand "You will teach my child right from wrong, or there will be consequences".
I couldn't leave my kids alone with my parents because my mother would teach them to feel sorry for themselves and I would get ANIMALS back!
interesting how different personalities handle different problems, isn't it?
Keep looking for a solution - - you will find something that will work for you.
I also believe in a swift pop on the bumba! It is amazing what one swat at the right time can teach a child - - and, you have to do it young or you will find yourself with a mouthy teen who has been trained to ALWAYS override your sternest order. <wave>

nope , i do not bite my tongue, but i have to be careful how i word things to my DD. My 3 year old GS is very well behaved..she is a teacher and of course, does things way differently than i did.
i am fortunate that she asks me what i think..that is when i tell her.

they are creating a monster by letting him have his way when screaming..

i feel sorry for the child, because in the real world,you don't get what you want all the time.

Omak = ooo I like the redirecting energy idea. I think my mom's problem with my son and previously my brother was not knowing how to deal with all that energy, it's easier to just give in to whatever they want. She is so adoring of him can't stand the thought of saying "no" :) But I bet telling her to give him something else to do will work for us, he loves praise and to "help" so that should be a good technique. I'm also thinking that reminding her of my brother's tantrums that lasted until he was 8 or 9 will help! :D

As far as giving advice to your daughter, I totally agree with the "my house, my rules." But that's a tough situation when you are at her house.

I'm a Grandma too, we have rules at my house, sometimes different than Mommy's but rules just the same. I say stand your ground, it'll become easier as time goes on... My daughter told me one time, it's just easier to allow the behavior because she's exhausted... remember when you had young children.... you were exhausted all the time. Stand your ground. it's called the 'terrible twos' for a reason.

Yes, being a mother is a 24/7 job and sometimes it's exhausting. Especially when you have work or school, housework and kids to take care of.

My son asked my daughter what she wanted for Christmas and she told him that she'd like him to watch the kids for 3 evenings so she and her husband could go to dinner. :D

I don't remember being exhausted, but then I had pretty much made up my mind that I was NOT those kids' playmate or toy.
I watched my daughter raise one child and kept telling her: Have MORE - - they entertain each other!
She did NOT appreciate that bit of input.
I remember with our first grandchild the first time I had to pop him on the bumba ... that was when I knew why God gave children to young people.
Young people aren't quite so patient as us old, fat, lazy, wimpy, tired old people. My kids were extremely amazed at how patient I was with the boy.
But, the day did come, as it always will when your child is healthy, well-fed, and highly intelligent. The day when the boy looks you in the eye, says "NO!" and MEANS no! (or "I AM going to do what I want, and you can't make me!"
Wanna bet??? It about broke my heart to hear his sobs, and I vowed that I would never do that again (I think that lasted about three days, and he decided to try something else <g>)
but, for the most part, it only took one time to teach him that I was very capable of meaning what I say ...
sometimes, we expect too much from children, and sometimes we don't expect enough.
If you think of it - - humans were created to be productive and if we don't teach little humans at an early age how to produce something positive, they will produce something else less desirable, but they WILL produce.
And, enjoy the child for who he is!
My kids never went through stages - - I wouldn't allow it, but I did try to figure out what their actions were telling me about what was going on in their heads ...
a growing human, no matter the age, is seeking input and feedback and will do a lot of weird things to accomplish that end.
Remember to keep an eye on the end product. You want a human who is reasonably self-sufficient, useful to others, and thoughtful, respectful, with a backbone of his own ... it takes a lot of work to accomplish that and a bit of expecting them to perform a bit beyond their level - - or at least the desire to improve themselves without having you tell them every move to make.
We really do start with a helpless infant who is expected to grow up into a responsible adult - - that isn't accomplished by waiting until x-age to start. We are teaching them every day, and we are the ones they want to learn it from (even when they are their most unlovable selves).
Can't tell I really like this subject, can you? LOL <wave>

Working parents DO have a lot more challenge.
When I was working, it took me awhile to realize - - I left my daughter at the sitter's during the best hours of her day.
Then, I got her home and we got ready for bed - - turns out, the babysitter was more a parent than I was ... I was more like a babysitter! <wave>

Love everyone who's saying, "My House, my rules."

This is a great life lesson. The rest of the world is not Mama. This knowledge really is a fundamental element of success.

Do you x-stitch? Ever made a sampler? How about hanging up a pretty sampler which reads, "My House. My rules." or, "Grandma's House. Grandma's rules."

You could add pointing at the sampler to your routine. You'll have The Look and The Point.

My fave is the "Life's unfair." sampler. When they hit the "That's not faaaaiiiir!" age, they'll be biting their tongues and holding back. No kid enjoys having their whine interrupted by a dismissive "Life's unfair."

Ah, good times. Thanks for the memories.

I was going to back off for awhile, but I just HAD to write <g>
I don't remember it, but my mother tells me that when we were growing up, we told her the only reason she and dad had had us was to do all their work .... r i g h t!
So, when the kids got old enough to grumble about chores, I just gave it to them straight:
You were born so I would have someone to do my work. Get busy!
It took all the guess work out of everything and then they REALLY had something to whine about! LOL <wave>
oh, and I found out that kids weren't born so we could reason with them.
They were born so that the reasons we choose what we choose is because we have a reason and WE know what the reason is!
Children are designed to challenge us in our perceptions - - validate them or change them, but children function best when they are surrounded by adults who are in control and know how to be adults. There is a reason children look UP to see you, and that reason isn't to bully them, it is so that they comprehend there are big people around to protect them, teach them, provide for them, and guide them.