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Thread: copyright laws

  1. #26
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plfreitag
    Patrice said:
    i think i'll just do as my instincts suggest and wait to see who sues. i don't have much anyway. wouldn't be worth what it'll cost them in legal fees. LOL

    I couldn't do that, knowing what I know now after looking some of this stuff up. I simply couldn't sleep with myself. I'd far rather write the designer or make up my own version altered enough that it's not a copy of the one I saw so that I don't violate the unspoken honor rule. I know if I made a pattern and was making part of my living selling it, I'd be really ticked off if I knew someone was making countless copies of it and selling it without credit, thereby selling it as their design...it's like lying.

    Trisha in MO
    You can't ask the designer's permission unless (1) you know who that is and (2) that person is alive. in which case you already know for sure it's copyrighted, so of course the right thing to do is ask. that's a no-brainer. same holds true if the person died fewer than 95 years before you want to use it. the right thing to do is to try contacting the designer's heir(s).

    the questions surround those patterns of unknown origin and age.

    i'm forkin' out the bucks for the quilt encyclopedia. the book is under $30. the companion software for EQ is (yeeps!!!) around $70. seems a worthwhile investment for anybody who might want to sell something - or give away more than one copy - some day.

    and that getting me to design it idea ain't half-bad. i'm not famous yet, so you could probably get it for a steal (but not from a steal. that would start the confusion all over again!) :mrgreen:

  2. #27

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    I'm thinking if you see something and draft your own interpretation of it, knowing it's not a copy, that's not a violation. However, if you take a picture, and make yours just like it, or only move a thing or two around, that's infringement. It's about making something that looks just like someone else's work and taking credit for it as your own. Think plagiarism. Either quote and give credit, or rearrange the ideas in your own words. :-)

    If I remember I saw something and I liked how the blocks looked and make my own version of those blocks in my own setting, using my own technique, without making it exactly the same, that's not making an unauthorized copy.

    It's kinda like the ladies who go to a store and see a dress they like and go home and design one like it for a lot less than, say, $600...it's their creation, and it's not a piece by piece copy, so it's cool. :mrgreen:

    Trisha in MO

  3. #28
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plfreitag
    I'm thinking if you see something and draft your own interpretation of it, knowing it's not a copy, that's not a violation. However, if you take a picture, and make yours just like it, or only move a thing or two around, that's infringement. :mrgreen:

    Trisha in MO
    the new version must vary from the original by at least 20% or it's considered "derivative" and therefore still and infringement unless you get permission. don't ask me how to measure that 20%. i have no idea.

  4. #29
    Carla P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    Patrice said:


    and that getting me to design it idea ain't half-bad. i'm not famous yet, so you could probably get it for a steal (but not from a steal. that would start the confusion all over again!) :mrgreen:
    I think you just hit on something... "from the steal" Develop a pattern line & call them the "PGA Quilts... From the Steal" & start with your own version of the "Drunkards Path", then "Jacob Fell Off of the (Wagon) Ladder", "Back on the Wagon (Wheel)", and on and on and on it could go.

    I'll set up the website you can sell them from (copyrighted of course) and you'll be famous in no time!! What do ya say??? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:

  5. #30
    Super Member mpeters1200's Avatar
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    I get the copywrited and not copywrited stuff...

    My question lies solely in the question of public domain. How are we supposed to know that for example a 4-patch is copywrited or public? Is there a list somewhere or am I just supposed to be scared to give away 30 of the things lest I create infringement?? I would never sell a quilt, they just aren't pretty enough (I mean the ones I make not quilts in general).

  6. #31
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla P
    "Jacob Fell Off of the (Wagon) Ladder", "Back on the Wagon (Wheel)", and on and on and on it could go.

    I'll set up the website you can sell them from (copyrighted of course) and you'll be famous in no time!! What do ya say??? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:
    Well ... first I'd say "Jack Got Twisted in the Box" of "Chinese Puzzles on Black" because "Symmetry Moves in Mysterious Ways" and "Foolish Variations"

    Then I'd say, "Let's Get The Website Started Old School, Yo"

    :P
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  7. #32
    Carla P's Avatar
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    YOU DA WOMAN!!!! I'M ON IT!!! :D :D

  8. #33

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    There's a post up higher that gives the name of a couple books you can check in that will list most of the public domain blocks and such. Basically, a 4 patch, a 9 patch, and most of the really common blocks are public domain. If you can't afford the books they have them at most libraries.

    Trisha in MO

  9. #34

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    I was using a faux 30's quilt block picture as my avatar. The pic I saved from their website. I was recently asked to remove it for these same reasons. And I hadn't even sewn a block yet, just used their picture.

    Also I've been on some websites that when I right click my mouse to save the picture I got a pop-up saying function not available. So it's not just making a quilt for selling, you can't use their picture either.

  10. #35
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Hey, Debbie. If you want to use quit block clipart for your avatar, go to this web site:

    http://dlstewart.com/clipart.htm

    she makes the pics available for free use on web sites and asks only that you include a link to her site. i believe that if you included her site (with URL) as the source in your signature, it would fulfill her request.

  11. #36
    Super Member 3incollege's Avatar
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    After reading all this I think it is quite impossible to actully sell anything that we make. unless you are a true artist. What about all the quilts we see posted on E-bay for sale? They only go for pennies
    maybe the longarmers are the only ones that can make a living at quilting. Is stippling copywritted?

    Donna

  12. #37
    Carla P's Avatar
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    Good one Donna!

    :shock: If it is, I'm busted!!

  13. #38
    Super Member vicki reno's Avatar
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    Well, I am going to stick to the old patterns there are enough of those around tha I should be okay. And if Patrice is still alive and kicking after that, I'll get her to start designing for me and she'll become rich and famous selling her original designs. Once that happens, we can all say, "I knew her when....." We will all be able to say how nice and generous she is and just how talented she is, and her business will be well on its way :!: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  14. #39
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    well ... if you don't wait until you run out of PD blocks to say such nice stuff about me ... maybe i can retire early. :P

    thanks for the compliments. :P

  15. #40
    Super Member vicki reno's Avatar
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    Hey why not! We can all live on love :D Isn't that the way its suppose to be? Like the coke ad "Live in perfect harmony"?

  16. #41

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    It is confusing!! i owned and operated a needlework shop for 15 years. At some of the conference i attended, we were told that anyone who bought Ie) a cross stitch pattern could make a copy for herself in order to keep the original nice. But to copy to avoind paying for it was wrong, because it deprived the designe of her rightful income. I believe it was Vicki wo brought up ruby Shor McKim's book. I have a Dover edition copyrighted 1961 (40 years after ruby published). In the intro of my book she explilciletly say you can copy them. "....and drafted patterns from which you can copy them." It sounds to me in the ea4liler part of the intro she's collected these patterns which had never been printed before--just passed on quilter to quilter. The table of contents lists has a section called "Original Quilt Designs" for which there are pictures but no pattern. Then comes the list of Patterns. If this is a book you would like to use, you can always email mckinstudios.com and asks who holds sthe copyright--them or Dover. Thanks for letting me put my 2cents in.

  17. #42
    Senior Member k_jupiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie Murry
    I was using a faux 30's quilt block picture as my avatar. The pic I saved from their website. I was recently asked to remove it for these same reasons. And I hadn't even sewn a block yet, just used their picture.

    Also I've been on some websites that when I right click my mouse to save the picture I got a pop-up saying function not available. So it's not just making a quilt for selling, you can't use their picture either.
    Wellllll, actually, you were wrong. Don't get too upset about it. They have to protect their copy write or it isn't any good.

    The right mouse thing is used by ticky tacky web designers who think they can keep people from copying images from their site. Any half decent programmer knows how to get around that. We view those web designers as... bush league.


    If there are no Bernina 830s in Heaven, I ain't going!

    tim in san jose (just this side of heaven)

  18. #43
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    I have an e-copy of that book (legally reproduced by antiquarian e-books.com). only the 24 bird patterns have ruby's copyright. none of the others appear to be copyrighted or attributed to any one designer. they are all patterns i've seen "all over the place" so must surely be in the public domain.

    the e-book is $10.95 from http://www.patchwork-quilt-patterns.com/

    regardless of the source, since Ruby passed in 1976, i wouldn't use any of her copyrighted patterns for commercial purposes until 2066. i could be wrong, but since i figure i'll have "given up quilting" by then, it is simply not an issue for me. LOL

    a lot of ruby's work was included in the Kansas City Star's quilt patterns series. They published 1,001 patterns between 1928 and 1961. the complete collection is available in a series of volumes compiled and reproduced by the Groves Publishing Company. each of the 10 volumes costs about $21 including shipping.

    http://www.quilterbydesign.com/kansascitystar.html

    Groves also sells reproductions of a long list of ruby's original patterns.

    as to the KCS patterns, 798 of them are also available in the quilt block encyclopedia compiled by Barbara Brackman. the CD version of the book is $70 and can be purchased from ElectricQuilt.com and their authorized vendors. it's hard to tell from the CD whether any of those blocks is still covered by a standing copyright. the overwhelming majority, though, are obviously public domain. i'll buy the book soon (around $30, i think) to see if that makes it more clear.

    it seems to me that anybody who wants to make a commercial living from quilting or designing without creating their own unique block designs has a wealth of public domain blocks to work from without needing to risk violating any standing copyrights held by quilters on the market today.

    if my own dream comes to life and i find myself a "for real" professional some day, i'll consult an attorney to see if i can legally make quilts for any customers who want a specific copyrighted pattern - provided they buy the pattern and just pay me for materials and labor. (that's years away so anybody who wants to pay the lawyer now and tell us the answer is sooooooo welcome to do us that favor. :mrgreen: )

  19. #44

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    It's a whole lot less trouble, to just design your own.

  20. #45
    Super Member vicki reno's Avatar
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    For my own piece of mind, I am going to check at the library to see if the two other books mentioned are there and do some research. I am not going to be doing this in any big way, but then again don't want to step on any toes, assuming someone is even interested enough to pay for a quilt. I figure that I have 2 years to research it out. Think that'll be enough time? Complicated subject!

  21. #46
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    i think we (me included) are making it more complicated than it needs to be. i figure if i stick to top designs based on the 1,000 plus public domain blocks available and/or my own originals i have nothing to worry about.

    unless we can blame it on the lawyers.

    yeah! i like that idea better. let's blame it on the lawyers.
    :mrgreen:

  22. #47
    Super Member vicki reno's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan to me :D

  23. #48
    Super Member mpeters1200's Avatar
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    Just a quick question..

    I purchased a magazine. I intend on making one of the patterns in this magazine. I then plan to put it here so you can see it when it's done. Do I have to site the magazine? Do I have to contact the author? I just want to show you what I have when I have it. Any suggestions?

  24. #49
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    i suggest you not worry so much. :wink:

    seriously, though ... as long as you don't try to claim the design as your own (which we already know you wouldn't do) or try to sell us anything related to the quilt, the magazine, or the pattern, and don't also post (or offer) copies of the pattern, etc. you can post your picture with no worries. it would be courteous to say which magazine, issue and pattern you used. it will also save you time 'cause i'll betcha lots of people will like what they see and will ask if you haven't already said.
    :P


  25. #50
    Super Member mpeters1200's Avatar
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    Patrice....I hope you know you rule!!

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