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Thread: Ethical Question

  1. #1
    Super Member JNCT14's Avatar
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    OK - here is the dilemma. I am browsing on sites, reading this forum, looking at quilting magazines and I happen to see a quilt that is just SO pretty, I am dying to make it. I also notice that I can purchase a kit in order to make this wonderful quilt.

    However, I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?

    Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it. And I KNOW that we need to support quilt businesses so they can stay in business. But I wouldn't use the kit, so why am I paying for it?

    So lets hear your opinions!

  2. #2
    Super Member isnthatodd's Avatar
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    I would look thru some of the old books that have blocks and see if the main block (s) is there. If so, then you should be ok doing your own thing. If it's an art quilt and you will draw stuff, I think that gets iffy.

  3. #3
    Super Member Maride's Avatar
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    You could contact the designer and ask if it is available as pattern only. You don't necessarily have to like the colors or fabrics on a kit and should be free to still make the quilt supporting the quilt industry. I don't like to be imposed colors when purchasing kits. On the other hand, many people like to be guided and when they see a quilt they want to make an exact replica.

  4. #4
    Pam
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    I copy stuff all of the time. I rarely purchase a pattern (think I have 2x). Most of the time traditional blocks are used in commercial patterns, that is why we like them!

    I do not take pictures of others stuff to copy, just remember what I saw and draw it out on graph paper when I get home, so who knows if it is a copy? I will usually throw in extra stuff like pinwheels, ect to personalize it anyway.

  5. #5
    Super Member JNCT14's Avatar
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    What if the pattern is a well known block, but the color scheme is what makes it different? Trouble is there are SO many ways you can vary the look of the block by the color selection,what makes it proprietary?

  6. #6
    Moderator sharon b's Avatar
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    No you don't have to buy the kit . Anyone can make any quilt any way they want to as long as you don't advertise it as "yours" Does that make sense ?

  7. #7
    Super Member Maride's Avatar
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    Many designer just want the recognition. If you use one of Marcia's patterns(Quilter's Cache) all she requires is that you acknowledge that you used one of her original patterns.

  8. #8
    Super Member JNCT14's Avatar
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    So I can put the provence on the back with an indelible marker? (I always do this to acknowledge at least the pattern and where i got it)

  9. #9
    Super Member sewcrafty's Avatar
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    Boy, there have been many discussions on this here!!! Look in the search area. Plan on being able to spend a lot of time reading!! Topics were very interesting.

  10. #10
    Pam
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNCT14
    So I can put the provence on the back with an indelible marker? (I always do this to acknowledge at least the pattern and where i got it)
    I acknowledge if I did pick up on someone else's idea, for sure. I have a Frank Lloyd Wright in the works now, and you can bet I am going to acknowledge him. (I am not worried he is gonna get me, LOL, I just think it is right)

  11. #11
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    I too do a lot of browsing and looking at quilts and almost all the time I can figure out how it was made. I wouldn't copy a truly original design and say it was my own but, as one person said, a lot of quilts are made up of traditional blocks put together in a different way or use of color.

    Something I found interesting is that in EQ6 all of the blocks are not copywrite (unless you install an add-on by a specific designer) and they can be used any way you want to. You could say that it was inspired by a certain design.

    I do purchase patterns too.

  12. #12
    Super Member butterflywing's Avatar
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    maybe you can make a change here and there and also give credit on the back for the inspiration. this sounds like a copyright question.

  13. #13
    Super Member Lucky Patsy's's Avatar
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    I think it would be unethical to make any money off it without buying the kit. I would give credit by saying it was inspired by_____________.

  14. #14
    Pam
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    Unless you sell it, or put it in a show to turn a profit, who would care? I have yet to enter a "real" show, but always give credit where it is due.

    Again, I just think that is the right thing to do. However if I am using a technique that I learned somewhere else to reproduce my own photograph, ect I do not feel the need to give credit.

    I can see the label now, it would look like an acceptance speech from the Oscars.

    I would like to thank Steam a Seam, and Coats and Clark, and Kodak, and Benartex, and my mother, I love you Mom!

    However, I will put inspired by the stained glass windows designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Or Quilter's Cache, ect.

  15. #15
    Super Member Dina's Avatar
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    I am fairly new to quilting, so there may be a protocol I am not familiar with, but I am not new to sewing. I often copied clothes that I had seen when I sew for myself. I never even thought about it being wrong. As long as you don't sell it or claim you created the design, I would think it would be just fine. I will be reading the answers you get though. It may very well be that I am way wrong here.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharon b
    No you don't have to buy the kit . Anyone can make any quilt any way they want to as long as you don't advertise it as "yours" Does that make sense ?
    What she said. :thumbup:

  17. #17
    Super Member Kitsie's Avatar
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    If the pattern is also printed in the magazine as well as offered as a kit, you could just buy a back issue of the magazine, which, of course you probably already know. If it's only as a kit then I guess you're out of luck! These are such "iffy" situations! Anybody know a lawyer or expert that could give us a "tute" on these laws?

  18. #18
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    It does get sticky -

    hexagons inspired by a bee's honey comb -

    tiles from thousands of years ago -

    a design inspired by a kaleidoscope -

    a landscape quilt inspired by the landscape -

    haven't seen many designers crediting "God" or "the Creator"

    where does the "original" concept come from?

  19. #19
    Super Member lfw045's Avatar
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    Tile from my bathroom floor. I say make it......LOL!

  20. #20
    Super Member Gramof6's Avatar
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    As long as you are not going to sell it, make it & maybe include the place of inspiration on the label. And no you do not need to buy a pattern or a kit if you can make it without one. To a point, this can only get as sticky as you allow it. Are you going to take a pic & have it published all over the place claiming it is your design? No. So okay, anyone can make a block or quilt if it is an easy one to do or is out there somewhere for all to see & figure out for themselves. Make it & enjoy. My 1/2 a cent may be wrong but geesh this just gets my goat at times & gets carried too far. LOL

  21. #21
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    [quote=JNCT14]OK -

    I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?
    Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it.

    You're under no obligation to buy the kit, nor to seek permission. Go ahead and make it. The only way you'd be in trouble is if you tried to sell it or a picture of it was published or perhaps, if it was entered in a show.
    If it assuages your feeling of wrongdoing, ask if the pattern is available and if it is buy it.

  22. #22
    Luckynumber7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharon b
    No you don't have to buy the kit . Anyone can make any quilt any way they want to as long as you don't advertise it as "yours" Does that make sense ?

    Right on.

  23. #23
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    this is definitely a copyright issue.

    if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.

    making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.

    if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.

    put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.

    you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:

    if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Quilting Nonnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    this is definitely a copyright issue.

    if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.

    making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.

    if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.

    put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.

    you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:

    if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.
    I agree, Patrice. Copy is copy no matter what you plan to do with it, how much you change it. The law is there to protect people from losing credit and money for a creation they have made.

    Here is something I found on quilt.com that tells the laws surrounding copyright and applied to quilting.

    http://www.quilt.com/FAQS/CopyrightFAQ.html

  25. #25
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    But see, the part I don't get:
    Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
    Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
    Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
    I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
    I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
    How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
    It makes me crazy trying to understand it.

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