This is the second time I won a pattern on Ebay only to find it's pages torn out of a magazine. Even the templates were cut from a page. None of it is even copies. Just torn out pages. I'm having a real prob. with this & wonder if it is legal or bothers anybody else. Or am I just missing something?
I did email the grp. at Better Homes & Gardens that puts out this magazine. I'm curious to see if I even hear back.

I don't think it's legal for a person to do that.
I'm curious too to see what they say

I'll let you know if I hear from anybody

If this happened to me, I'd feel cheated. On the other hand, I have about 10 years worth of quilt mags, perhaps I should start tearing them apart!

I don't think you can sell something like that, but giving it is probably OK. Legal or not, I feel it is unethical and I would also feel cheated.

Yes it also bothered me. I have won patterns and they were pages torn out of magazines. Please post updates if you hear from Better Homes & Gardens.

I'm not feeling cheated as such but it just smacks of something wrong. If I can get an explanation from the source that it's ok, then I'll be happy to let it go.

I'm just reading in another thread about "carping" & being negative. (I remember the msg they're referring to & felt bad about it at the time) I sure hope my comment doesn't sound like that since I'm just trying to find out if this is legal. If not, I will sure question a seller in the future as to her/his source of patterns.

I have so much faith in this grp. that I knew we would all rise above any negativity.

I have gotten crochet patterns like that. Most of them were from very old magazines. I think that may not be against the law. I am not sure.

I often sell on e-bay. If it wasn't against the law I might take my crocheting and quilting magazines apart and keep what I like and sell the rest. But I feel like it is/should be agaist the law so I wouldn't do it.

I, too, have lots of quilting, crochet, & counted cross stitch bks. & yarn to get rid of but I'd rather just GIVE them away to somebody in this grp. I've already taken lots to thrift stores but in the future, I'll offer them up free here.

If they're the original patterns from the mags. it's legal, but if they're copies of the patterns that would be against copywrite law. But, I don't understand why someone wouldn't just sell the whole magazine, rather than tear it up.

Pat G. did not buy them, she 'won' them, but I wonder how eBay would feel about knowing that sort of thing was going on. I think it's pretty tacky. Hope it's not just a way to get your information. Be careful. Another good reason to let eBay know.

This is not the same as just complaining.

While I did "win" it, I still paid for it. Not quite the same in my mind. Good idea about questioning Ebay though & let them investigate it. I may try that if I don't hear back from BH&G. I had a hard time finding an email address for "Help" or "Contact us". Hard to tell how many offices it may go thru. If at all.

I think something like this...asking a question like this is ok.
I, myself, don't see anything wrong with it. I'm sure someone on the board knows the "LEGALESE" to this. We have alot of very smart people here.
I just bet that someone will come in with the correct answer.

I think there's a rule that you can't monetarily benefit from the distribution of the pattern. Some patterns say they can only be used by the person that purchased, no? How it relates to the magazine, I have no idea...

Oh, I thought you "won" a contest. In that case, I definitely applaud you for questioning the legality and integrity of this practice and I'm sure eBay will be happy to know. If you don't hear back, I live down the street from Ebay HQ, and know a couple of people I could ask.

Not sure about the legality of it. But if they did not state in in the auction that it was ripped from a magazine then you have a right to file a " not as described" thing against the seller.

I just asked a seller if it was legal so maybe others will see the note and not buy try reporting to ebay.

I have over 10 years of Mag I have through about making the copies of the quilts I would like to do and then give the Mag away

It's legal. They are selling the actual, original pages from the magazine, not xeroxed or scanned copies.

And if they sell separate patterns from the magazines, they can make back many times their cost of the magazine, or it could even all be pure profit if they got the magazines free or for scant money.

This has been going on in, as was posted, crochet and knitting, on ebay, for many years now.
Ebay is well aware of it.

I know a lady who financed her daughter's wedding 7 years ago with sales on ebay of pattern pages from new as well as old crochet magazines and booklets.
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Thanks, Sharon. I'll keep that in mind. I imagine Ebay would know the answer but I'll have to wait for responses from each step. I'm just happy to know I'm not the only one that this doesn't feel right to.

Actually it's legal to give away or sell a pattern only on the condition that we do not keep a copy. The copy is what is illegal.

But I agree it would be nice not to have to store full books and magazines just to keep copies of a few patterns.

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Good grief, no kidding. Maybe if we find out it's all legal, we may all be onto something. LOL.

This is what I do. Just copy what I want & take the rest to thrift stores. That's why I now say I will offer my bks. free to people in this grp. just for the cost of shipping.

Sorry, but the "copying" part is what makes it against the law. If you plan on doing this, whatever, but I don't recommend you broadcast it on a public forum. Eyes are everywhere.

this is not a rant. not even close. you've asked an important question. you presented it without flipping out and throwing a fit. even better ... everybody who's responded has been helpful and constructive. no drama, no flames. makes a moderator proud. :thumbup:

i feel as most others do. whether or not it's legal, it's definitely tacky becaus she wasn't open and honest about what she was selling. in your case, i would include the "not as presented" as part of the feedback.

E-bay has a method to grade sellers--------------make sure you add your two cents worth.

Personally, I'm shocked------that is low.

i must agree. please make sure you have not kept copies of anything you sell or give away through the board. a better - but equally generous - option would be to donate your books to the local library. then you could "visit" them if you need to refer to them again later.

I bought a couple magazine ripout patterns but it was clearly stated in the description (on ebay) I had never seen the patterns because I don't own every magazine in the history of quilt magazines (well most of them lol) and I didn't think about the legality. Good question...now we know.

I don't think that selling patterns out of a magazine would violate the law anymore than the reselling of any other pattern.

However, I do think it would be presumed that you would be buying an "actual" packaged pattern unless it is stated otherwise in the items description.

I can understand your frustration, as well as your questioning this deceptive sale.

I've bought patterns this way through ebay. The ones I received were "packaged" in clear sheet protectors and I paid a minimal amount. Maybe $1. I like buying this way. I have way too many quilt magazines.

Ditto! Sometimes a magazine has several patterns that I am not interested in and will never use. eBay has had these listings for quite awhile. As long as the seller makes it clear that you are getting the original pages from a magazine, I see no harm in it.

As Long as the person isnot making more than she paid for it I think it is ok. As long as you got everything to the pattern... You wanted the pattern or you wouldn't of bid on it. It didn't say or no pictures of what it was?

You can sell your book and mags here and in a garage sale and it was not copyed and made moneys that way. They just sold the pattern.... You have posted a good question though, hope we see a responce... I love the pater by the way....
ConnieF

Probably because they can get more cash for it bhy selling articles separately. I would guess the magazine company would not be happy about it as they would normally wish to sell back copies. This way they are losing money. Not sure if legal or not though.

I always cringe when I see patterns listed as being torn out of magazines... I understand why they do it - since they can make a lot more money that way but I still cringe at the actual act of cutting apart a book or magazine! I know that's silly but I can hear the little pages screaming in agony as the unattached seller just exacto knives them apart lol.

I think I accidentally sold a magazine last year that I meant to keep - I can't find it and it's driving me NUTS! I'm tempted to rebuy it on Ebay but I know I'll find it afterwards lol. I really need to finish cleaning out my craft room *sigh* I only want 2 patterns out of it if I remember right - the paper pieced wreath and the snowman quilt - but I would not buy those patterns separately just because I like my things whole lol.

Uhmmmmmm......after reading all the responses here I have come up with this:

Many people would prefer only the patterns they want and not an entire magazine....so maybe this is where this tearing out of patterns came from. So what if the seller makes a bit more money this way. They are filling a need for certain customers.

Many people would prefer the entire magazine. So look for an entire magazine and your need will be met.

There are options for everyone and their particular desire. I believe that if they are sending the original pattern from the magazine and not a copy then they are withing the law in doing so. As said before it is the copying that takes one into those murky waters and illegal activity.

I would be disappointed if I received a pattern from a magazine, however, if it's legal to resell magazines, wouldn't it be legal to resell the pages as well?

I had noticed (a while back) that someone had been copying patterns from magazines and selling them on ebay. I had contacted ebay and the original magazine and neither one was upset about it. With all the copywrite commotion going around I was really surprised to hear that it didn't bother either of them!

Winning on ebay just means that you had the winning bid since it's an auction. While I'm not sure it's illegal, it's certainly unethical to do. I'd leave some comments on their feedback about just how tacky this practice is. Unless it was clearly stated in their ad that this pattern had been taken from a magazine then it's more "buyer beware"

I paid $18. for a patttern once, I had to order it. When I finally got it, it was just a photo copy. This was from a shop. I was furious, the pictures were so blurry, I went back and demanded to see the manager She said there was no way that would have been the case. I went back again armed with my camera and took photos of the quilt close up, each section, so I could see how to do it. Emailed the person who wrote the pattern but never heard back.

I wonder how the auction was worded and photographed. Still seems wrong to me though. But if the person auctioning it mislead you then you can get your money back from Ebay.