If I buy material at JoAnn's that has logo's etc from the Yankees or Red Sox, am I able to sell the product I make from it? I was under the impression that JoAnn holds the licensing and therefor I should be able to. Anybody know?

It's unlawful to sell a product that displays someone else's image without the image owner's permission -- even if the maker of the product lawfully purchased the fabric (or any other material) that contains the image. The fabric comes with a "personal use license".

The rationale is: consumers would likely falsely believe that the image owner either made the product or sponsors, endorses, or is somehow associated with the maker of the product made from the fabric (in violation of trademark law).

Sorry!

no clue but that's a good question! I'll be watching to :)

hahaha well I guess now we know! wow your a fast typer MZstitch!!

no- you need to contact the "yankee's" or whom ever for permission- which is usually denied- Disney is the biggest for not allowing the sale of any Disney characters designed items. licensed fabrics are sold FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY- which means you can not sell anything made with them- and the fines are serious when you get caught- the license holders (ie- Disney, Yankee's ect) do prosecute- go after those fines.

Not quite.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...edFabric.shtml

Wow, MTS that was very helpful, thanks for posting! It makes sense how it is explained!

Thank you MTS that opens the way to Cowboys and Redskin quilts, etc. I wil get the proper wording and attach the disclaimer to each product to protect myself. Thanks again!

This is from a years ago - but it has some interesting examples of the "First Use Doctrine" - not just for fabric:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398157

Obviously, you have to use some common sense.

Your should NOT state anywhere that it is an authentic Yankees product.

You're using authentic licensed fabric - meaning you didn't go to Spoonflower and print out yards of the logo (although SF wouldn't allow you), or used photo fabric where you printed out images and logos.

Now, if you're mass producing 1000's of these in China and trying to sell them on 161st St outside Yankee Stadium ;-) , it's a much bigger issue than if you're making stuff to sell to raise money for your Little League team.

But check out the suggestions for labeling the product.

My DD bought fabric by Quilted Treasures that states, "License is required for any use beyond personal consumption." Susie decided not to buy more fabric from QT because it seemed greedy to her. I agree. There are too many companies I can buy from that are satisfied with the profit made on the sale of their fabric.

This was very informative and interesting. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks MTS. that is great info. i have bookmarked it.

you are incorrectly and unfairly holding QT at fault.

they have to negotiate the license to print the fabrics. the "personal only" is imposed by the owner of the licensed images, not by the fabric manufacturer/printer.

also, perception of "greed" is a relative thing and not always accurate. unless you have been allowed to examine their books and balance sheets it is not fair to accuse them of greed. they are a business and need profits to pay their workers, other expenses, and to stay in business.

What's the difference between buying a quilt made with licensed fabric by a local quilter or buying a quilt at a garage sale that originally was bought at company store (ie Disney). Nobody questions garage sale or estate sale finds.

Just because the wording is there doesn't make it enforceable. For instance if you come across an old rental agreement that is good except for a phrase that says something like 'persons of a certain group/nationality need not apply'. An unscrupulous landlord might try to use that to limit who gets to rent. Unenforceable.

sadly this is no longer TRUE either. IT can also lead to some harsh complications later on.

The first use doctorine means you get to use ONE TIME. Not that you can mass produce items with that fabric or pattern.

This is exactly what led to the LIC words you now read on the fabric selvages.

You can contact the team leaders and they will tell you that NO you can not make items to resale from that fabric.

What about the embroidery patterns? I see people selling Disney characters all the time on bibs, shirts, etc. at craft shows. Do they get permission from Disney when they purchase the patterns? Just wondering...

I have never seen a topic so much more confusing than this one. Every time it comes up. There is a reason I won't sell my stuff.

I agree with PatriceJ. It isn't fair to blame the catalog company for licence restrictions inposed by the manufacturer. The copyright laws are very difficult to understand, and I thank you for the information posted by MTS. I have also bookmarked it.
Sue

if you are going to sell products from licensed materials, i would spend the money to have a paralegal or copyright attorney to provide you clear explanation of the law. it would be far cheaper to go this route than to end up fighting a case through the courts. to me it is all the costs of doing business.

after seeing what the music industry did to ordinary citizens, even college students, with downloading music and how they actively pursued them through the courts and won every time, if i planned to sell licensed goods online or at a show, i would spend the few dollars to get on the right side of the law.

Hhmmmm....still confused. Will watch this further.

And very offensive for people who are buying a home that has stuff like that in the wording eventhough it is not enforcable.

usually not and just because they do it does not mean it is right/legal!

Music downloading is an entirely different issue and should not muddy the waters of a discussion regarding the use of licensed products in a non-commercial environment. People have been prosecuted for knowingly downloading music illegally. It is not the same thing as purchasing licensed fabric and then producing something that may or may not be sold.

Except once you sell it, it becomes commercial. Selling something is commerce.

Yup, that's what I thought. It kinds of sticks in my craw when I see it. For those of us who follow the rules and abide by them.... well, it's difficult to keep my mouth shut when I see people blatantly disregarding them.

Welcome to the board from Southern California!

Including a statement that the item being sold is in no way connected with whatever 'licensed' team, group, etc. creates a transparency it is helps to alleviate confusion when selling the item. NOT including the name of whatever 'licensed' group is printed on the fabric is also a good thing.

One may NOT mass produce items created with 'licensed' fabric and sell them.

The copyright/license means YOU can't reproduce THEIR fabric...doesn't mean YOU can't create something from their fabric and sell it.

A lot of information is simply scare tactics, if not outright stupidity.

This is a really interesting topic, and I agree, can be really confusing. I started a bean bag teddy bear company in the 90s and was sent a "cease and desist" letter from Ty, the makers of Beanie Babies, contending that I could not make any bean bag teddy bear as it would infringe on Beanie Babies. The lawyer asserted that even though my bears (Stately Bears - a line of 50 state bears with an embroidered design for each state) were larger and of a different design I was infringing.

Most companies that were sent these letters just stopped making their original products, but I chose to go ahead with my line of bears and consulted a trademark/copyright lawyer. The bottom line is that anyone can have their lawyer send you a letter about anything, but it doesn't mean they are correct. In many cases they are overzealously protecting their client's rights, which is what they are paid to do.

Many of the Major League Baseball teams and some college teams have chosen not to license fabric any longer because they want to hold on to their rights to license and/or sell finished products. It seems to me they realize they can't have it both ways, that they can't both license the logo for fabric and then expect that craftsmen won't use that fabric for resale items.

There are other issues with using a licensed fabric for resale. First, whether the licenser is right or wrong, they have enough influence with ebay, Etsy, and other similar sales outlets that they can get your products pulled off those sites. I don't blame the sites because why should they risk getting involved in a legal mess. Second, what would you do if you did find yourself in a legal mess, even if you were right? Are you going to fight a large company at a great cost to make a small profit?

In my case I had several thousand dollars invested in Stately Bears and I wasn't willing to drop my idea. The bears were educational in nature and that part of the product was important to me. I went ahead with it, produced all 50 states over about three years time, and never heard from Ty again. Eventually they came out with Beanie Babies named after cities and states. I gave them a break and didn't sue!

The issue with licensed fabrics and anything similar is not just copyright, it's trademark...a much bigger fish.

What if the person wanting the quilt buys the material and brings it to you and you just make the quilt and charge him for labor? Would that get by those regulations?

Question on Disney and stuff. I am buying a Brother embroidery machine which has preloaded Disney images on it. I plan on possibly using these for quilts and items to give away as presents, not to make money. IF I wanted to put some things with it on for a booth at a quilt show (small local lets say) to sell for some extra money it would be ok if I have disclaimer that I do not represent Disney, yadda yadda?

I have a feeling that if you contacted Disney and asked them, they would probably say that you can't. Anyone else have information on this?

THANK YOU !!! I've been selling scrub caps locally for our college teams and have been concerned about this. Now I know what I need to do to cover myself. I don't sell these items online because I don't want that hassle.

Vicki

That's what I do. Not long ago a lady wanted a quilt made for her new granddaughter with LSU fabric on one side and FSU fabric on the other. I told her if she bought the fabric, I would make it for her. I don't see how anyone could come after me. She was the one who bought the fabric. She just hired me to make the quilt.

I try to look at it from the designers standpoint, if I make a cute Winnie the Pooh blanket, people will be more likely to buy it than if it is any other bear. So as a seller of handmade items, I am increasing my sales by using their design. On the flip side, I'm also increasing the sale of their fabric by purchasing it and turning it into something to sell to someone who doesn't have my sewing skills. (I would not have purchased the fabric for my own use, therefore no fabric sale.)

To me, it is in the favor of the owner of the license if we can use it to make things to sell, then more of their fabric is getting sold. I would never buy LSU fabric for myself! My quilt would have FSU on both sides!!! LOL!

I agree it's confusing and hard to know who/what to believe but look at this link. To me, it makes sense and seems to be a site that looks at copyright/trademark issues and researches the issues pretty thoroughly. http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...edFabric.shtml

One of the best explanations I've seen on licensing.

This being the case than let the person who commissions the work go out and buy the fabric. It can than be ascertained "personal use".... but pay the person labor costs for making it.

As someone else on the board just mentioned, we are not trying to sell the design, plus, these companies have already gotten money for the sale of their fabric, when they sold to the fabric stores, according to the courts they cannot get paid twice. they are aware of what people will be doing with the fabric when the fabric stores sell to us.
Everything that you see on liscensing said we are not doing anything wrong. Now the companies can try and tell us otherwise, and show up at craft fairs, but if they want to keep using money for this purpose, thats fine, but it will be costly for them and they will lose in court.

I think the point is that it's not costly for them; they have in-house lawyers and it's easy for them to send a letter and scare the pants off of a craftsperson. Whether it would hold up in court is a different story, but how many small crafts people have the funds to go up against a large company with virtually unlimited funds?

Some of the Quilt Shows and Craft Shows around here are putting statements in their vendor applications that nothing with copyrighted or trademarked fabric included in finished products for sale are allowed unless accompanied with written permission to use the logo or “protected” design.

As far as the fabric itself, we have about quit handling the fabrics in our shop that include the “for personal use only” warning printed in the selvage edge, especially if the print has logos on it. The warning frightens some of the customers, and disturbs others, because they think that they could get into trouble if they use the fabric wrong some way.

CD in Oklahoma

Reading all of the messages gives me the reason why the MLB no longer allows their logos to be used on cotton yardage. You can find fleece, but not on the cotton fabric. I wasn't even able to find bandanas to help with finishing a MLB quilt - I was missing the Washington Nationals & Toronto Blue Jays. The Jays I was able to find a fabric with pictures of all the caps, but it was printed before the Nationals were a team. They really went to the extreme to prevent us from using their logos.

Thought about getting an embroidered patch, but they wanted an ungodly amount, so the quilt does not have the Nationals represented.