Question about copyright
 

I was hoping someone might be able to help.

I saw a fairly simple geometric design on the internet and thought it would make a great quilt. I found lots of pictures with the same design but I can't find anything about who might have designed it. I googled copyright free designs and it comes up on numerous sites but you have to pay for the digital copy but it says it is "royalty free".

Even with my basic art skills LOL I have drawn out the pattern, can I use that design? If I enter my quilt in a show do I put it down as my design? I am fairly new at this and would hate to get this wrong.

Thanks for your advice

Good Question. I'm curious to see what others have to say. If you were just going to make a quilt for personal use, i would say there's no problem. I've made quilts where I've drafted the pattern from a quilt I saw online, so I hope this is the case!

If you were going to market the pattern, or sell the finished quilt, you would probably have issues.

Don't know about using it in a show.

A fairly simple geometric design in itself probably can't be copyrighted. Imagine what would happen if somebody had copyrighted a square.

Why are you asking for legal advice here? :rolleyes: I mean, half of us aren't from the your country, and I can't imagine the other half has a clue? If it's something you're that worried about, you really should be asking a lawyer, right?

If the image is as common as you say and it is located on several different websites for different companies or different things and the diagram does not have a registration mark (r with a circle around it), TM in one of the corners, or some other mark to indicate ownership, then it is not trademarked. In the US, searches can be done by the general public on the federal website. There is bound to be a government entity in your country that issues trademarks and copyrights. I would look there under the FAQs. If you are still uncomfortable after reading the information on these websites, then you may want to check in with a lawyer that is licensed to practice in you country. (My education in law does not reach as far as Australian law)Best of luck!

You can use the design in anything you make but can't mass market it or claim it as your own if you use a bought pattern. If you drew your own design that looks the same then say inspired by the designer. I don't fret over copyrights as long as I don't claim the pattern as my own or reproduce the pattern for sale.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about it Woody. In most quilt shows they just want you to give credit if you used someone's pattern. There was a big bru-ha-ha about a year ago with McCalls quilt magazine publishing inaccurate info on copyright issues and entering quilt shows. It cause many shows to go into a tailspin demanding quilters who made a quilt from a pattern they did not design themselves get written permission from pattern designers that they could in fact enter the quilt in competition. In fact it caused untold amounts of grief for poor Bonnie Hunter, she was inundated with requests. She finally put something on her website that anyone is free to exhibit a quilt they made using her patterns and to please quit emailing her as it was completely overloading her in box.

It later came out that McCalls was dead wrong in their article but I don't think they ever printed a retraction. If you enter a show there with a pattern you drafted yourself but inspired from a picture on the net I think that is ample information to submit with your entry application and it is doubtful you have infringed on anyones copyright.

And this is precisely why you never ask strangers (or even faaaabulous friends) on quilting board questions that should be sent to an attorney. Those who try to help (with good intentions of course) will most likely be wrong... even McCalls magazine was off their rocker, by a long shot.

Thanks everyone for your advice, I think I will just go with it, as it is a geometric design that anyone could draw themselves, I will check with my guild when I finish it if there are any issues with entering it in a show.

I really don't think I would bother with the expense of asking an attorney for advice like this, when there are so many helpful, friendly and knowledgeable people right here on the quilting board, I did check the design and there is no "R" in a circle, so I should be OK. If not, then I will make myself a quilt that I will love!

Thanks again everyone!!!!!! :)

I think you'd be okay as long as you didn't try to make money from it.

Simple patterns are generally also public domain, having been designed a century or more ago. If you invest in something like Barbara Brackman's Encyclopedia of Pieced Quilt Patterns, you will find that most of the patterns in quilting magazines are really the same old things. If you are hunting for free well written patterns, there are lots of sites allowing you to download without cost. I like www.quilterscache.com There are lots of patterns posted here that are available. If you are not sure, you can PM the person who posted it.

Thanks for the help QM but the pattern isn't a quilt pattern just one I would like to make into a quilt, it has cubes in it, and I love the 3D effect of cubes but is nothing like any quilt I have ever seen. Unfortunately I can't find who designed it.
I think most everyone has given me great advice. I am only starting to think about quilt shows so I just wanted to make sure that what I wanted to do wasn't against the rules.

Thanks for the the name of the quilt book, I will keep an eye out for it :)

Woody, good luck making the quilt. I think asking your guild is an excellent idea.

I find it both difficult in some cases and impossible to give even an opinion about such an open ended question.
If the design is everywhere on the internet it should at least be pictured here so we can see what is being asked about. Post a picture and perhaps someone will have an informed answer

my understanding is traditional blocks cannot be copyrighted. Like Triple Rail, for example

This is the picture I am talking about [ATTACH=CONFIG]326575[/ATTACH]

Looks like something from MC Escher.......he was big on optical illusions.

That makes my eyes hurt. LOL

That's the Penrose Triangle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_triangle
Pretty old in design. Still, the only one that would get you is the original designer, a mathematician, and I don't think he cares.

if the design is 'royalty free' you can use it - you could include the source of the design on your label- there are tons of 'copy-right free' designs out there---and geometric shapes are something that would be difficult for someone to (claim) as their own---when copyright restrictions come into play is when you are copying a commercial pattern and trying to claim it as your own.
if using someone elses design you should always contact the designer and ask permission-
but even copyrighted designs can be used without permission if the designer is marketing it for public use-...it would be (against the rules) for you to use it commercially---as in offering the design for sale somewhere.

do you for some reason believe a lawyer could not be a quilter? or a member of this board? this board is full of many many knowledgeable people, Lawyers, Doctors, Designers, Authors- there is no reason to not ask the questions here.

Why pay $300+ to ask a lawyer and after he researches billing you for his time and a consultation fee, be told each copyright case is different according to factors. My neighbor is a lawyer, I just asked him. He said no lawyer can give you an exact answer on copyright, if you are sued then that's when it's hashed out in court who is right. He thinks you are okay not to be sued to design your own using the image as inspiration for personal use. Just saved you $300 +. LOL.

I'm thinking if you can figure out how to turn that into a quilt, more power to you!!!

thanks BellaBoo

Thanks everyone !!!!!! You really are the most helpful bunch of people EVER!!!!

Now for the next challenge, actually making it, LOL, this should be fun :p

NO, it is a good question for here!

to clarify, copyrights are generally NOT on the design elements, but are on the techniques, directions used to execute the making of the design! Even then, search the public domain blocks and you will find that your element might already be there!

Kind of a harsh reply. I see lots of questions on here asking about copyright laws and giving credit to the designer so this one doesn't seem out of place to me.

Ouch!! Unfortunately, it's responses like this that make some of us hesitate to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but when the response is this, it makes the one asking feel dumb.

Lucky I have a thick skin, :D there is so much good advice here, you just got to look on the bright side. :thumbup:

Thanks BellaBoo.....Good answer to an insensitive comment.....I have learned something new today. We have a terrific supportive community of quilters where no question doesn't have merit.........

The following website debunks false information given out about copyright issues. It's called Tabberone's Hall of Shame, which spotlights companies who spread false copyright information.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...aftSites.shtml As seen on this page, companies such as McCalls magazine, Etsy.com, Cricut, Provocraft (and many more) get it completely wrong.

You see, this is a hot button for people who earn a living in quilting. Conversations such as this hurt business. One person who hears gossip from so and so (in this case, the quilt show director who invented a ridiculous rule that has nothing to do with true copyright law). The rule requires innocent people to perform the equivalent of 'go jump in a lake' in order to submit a beautiful quilt that took hundreds of hours to make. Of course they're going to jump in the lake! And those who find jumping in the lake annoying, simply skip entering a show completely.

So where does this lead us? The owners of the lake get tired of telling people to quit jumping in the lake, so they put up fences (I.e.: ignore emails asking for permission to jump in the lake.) And if the innocent people go public, disheartened because they can't get permission to jump in the lake, it gives the owner a bad reputation, which is completely undeserved. People stop buying quilt patterns, the numbers of quilts entered in shows dwindles down to only women who are artistic enough to create their own patterns (I'm not one of them, by the way) and the industry suffers, especially the pattern designers who so graciously share their talent with the rest of us!

While your innocent question could have received a more thoughtful response from me (and I apologize for not trying harder) I hope you can see why questions about copyright issues are mind boggling even for the 'experts'.

Yet we have links to sites that insist the owners OWN those rights. @@

I attended the Mid-Atlantic quilt festival in February and noticed there were far fewer quilts than the last time I was there. The last time the quilts seemed to never end! Quilts were squeezed into every spare inch and it took hours to view them all. I came home with 300+ photos, and even then I only took photos of quilts I liked.

This year, part of the convention hall was simply empty. Huge empty spaces. After I walked through the wallhanging entries I said, 'where are the rest of them?" It was still a very good quilt show, but I was a little disappointed in the number of quilts. Especially after knowing what should have been there. After the McCalls magazine article, could it be that quilters simply threw up their hands and said "Forget it!" We'll never know, probably, but it would be interesting to know if other quilt shows had reduced numbers in quilt entries.

I don't know why there were fewer quilts at Mid-Atlantic, but that show does not require permission from the pattern designer. They do require that you appropriately credit the designer and quilter if needed...and that's something I believe should be done.

Janet

I'm in agreement. I know of people that put copyright on anything and everything they post or do. It doesn't mean a thing. In fact, I know a woman that puts copyright on the web sites she creates......and it doesn't mean a thing. She said it just stops people and they believe it. As for copyrighting any designs in the quilt world....very few are unique.

An acquaintance was the sister of a Disney copyright attorney. She told me he laughed when he heard the rumor-mill was churning again with stories of the little old lady who was sued by Disney for selling baby clothes she made with Disney licensed fabric. He joked 'big bad Disney' was at it again, which of course meant the story was hogwash.

I learned from the Tabberone website that some business people knowingly post incorrect copyright information at their businesses because it makes most people do what they want. Even if it's saying "when you buy my pattern you can only make 2 items that are for sale". Hogwash!

I'm thankful for people like Tabberone, it's so nice to see someone setting things straight.

I am interested in making quilts for resale and a former legal secretary so copyright law was important for me to nail down. After extensive Internet research I have learned 1) it is infringement if you make a paper copy and give it to someone else to use. 2) it is infringement to sell a quilt made from a pattern without the creator's permission. 3) the presence or absence of the copyright symbol does NOT negate infringement. It is a simple matter to contact the creator and get permission. I now check with the creator for permission before purchasing patterns. Most have given permission, but some have declined which is their right. I just don't buy their patterns. It was suggested when doing show and tell at a guild it would be nice if you gave the creator of the pattern credit along with the long arm quilter if one was used. 4) A quilt pattern is intended for you to make for your personal use unless stated otherwise. If the creator really wanted to push it and was aware you made 5 quilts from the pattern and gave them to family members it would be infringement. If you kept all 5 at your house for their use it is not infringement. However, I would think this unlikely. 5) I also just learned it is infringement if you donate the quilt. So now I need to contact the creator of the pattern of a quilt made in a class because I intended to donate it for a raffle to benefit our local volunteer fire department. Now I will be asking about this when taking classes. Life is complicated when you try to follow the rules isn't it.

My ignore list of posters is getting longer and longer. LOL