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VP not attending meetings
I'm president of a very small quilt guild, we average about 6 - 12 members at our monthly meetings and workshops. We held elections last November and this is the first time I've held office. Our VP, who has held that office for at least 3 years that I know of, said she would be willing to serve again, so she was re-elected. We've had 6 meetings/group activities since then and she hasn't attended any of them. We sold items at a craft show just before Christmas our members had made to raise funds for our guild, she didn't donate items or her time. We've made quilts for a local foster family, 27 in all, with fabric that was donated to the guild, she didn't finish her quilt. She hasn't attended regular meetings or workshops, but she's the first in line if she's at meeting where fabric has been donated to be used by the guild or if members had brought in unwanted fabric or sewing tools. She says she'll come to the next meeting, but the day of or before, she says she isn't up to it. We know she has health problems but how many meetings would you let her miss before you speak up? Our Treasurer, Secretary and I feel 2 more missed meetings and we need to replace her with someone who is willing to donate their time and skills. Any ideas on how to do this tactfully would be greatly appreciated.
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Meet to discuss by-law changes that would address contingencies like this. She likely won't be present, but if you have a quorum of officers you can then take it to the general membership for a vote. If her pattern holds, she won't be there for that either. Then you can address the issue with her in a letter or whatever, and make a change.
Jan in VA |
Maybe she agreed to serve out of a sense of obligation even though her health is an obstacle, and she would be relieved to relinquish her post. Has anyone considered just mentioning it to her?
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We don't have any set by-laws that I know of I'll check though. We're very casual and to me, not very organized. The secretary and treasurer agree with me and I know there are some members who also agree. Like I said, we're a very small group, less than 12 active members at any given time. I don't think it was a sense of obligation either. She's done the same thing with her church. They didn't put her on a committee for the new year because of her attendance record, she complained and told them she wanted to be on the committee and they put her on it. She's also whined to her church that she needed a new bed and they bought it for her, now she doesn't even bother to attend services. Sounds like a pattern to me. Do you think it would be proper for us (me, the treasurer & secretary) to bring it up at the next meeting if she's not there? I'd hate to do it if she was there.
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A VP really doesn't have that big of a job. I think she will show up when there is free stuff no matter if she is VP or not. We have several in our guild like this. If everyone thinks she is not doing her job then just tell her to let someone else have it that can come to the meetings. She sounds like a bully. Getting what she wants by demanding she wants it. Too many step out of her way and she expects it. Just ignore her and she will go away.
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Originally Posted by AChristina
(Post 7109641)
Do you think it would be proper for us (me, the treasurer & secretary) to bring it up at the next meeting if she's not there? I'd hate to do it if she was there.
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If your Guild is very casual, I would just let it go and not expect anything out of her. Sometimes people want to be in name only. But make certain any duties of the VP get done with or without her.
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She sounds very entitled. Not someone I'd want to be around. At all. I am hearing in what you say that most of you don't want her around, either. I think for now I'd just ignore her when she's there, which shouldn't be often. Since a VP doesn't really have anything to do (except fill in for a missing President and run a meeting), I think I'd let her finish out her term. But in the future if she wants to hold office, you should already have something in place in your by-laws preventing no-show members from holding offices. Generally someone has to make a motion to nominate a member for office anyway, and someone else has to second the nomination. If you run your meetings by Roberts Rules of Order, then she should never be able to hold office because none of you will nominate her or second the nomination. If it continues to irritate all of you that she's always there to take donated items, then you need to come up with another way of distributing the items. I would suggest you meet to sew charitable items with donated materials all together on site and that those donated materials stay on site instead of members taking them home. Is it possible for the guild to store guild-owned items like that where you meet, perhaps in a locking closet of your own? If not, maybe a member can store them at their home for group use only. You already know what she wants from belonging to your group, so just arrange things so she can't get what she wants unless she plays by the group rules, and she'll either shape up into the kind of member you want, or she'll just quit because she's unhappy. Either way it's a win for the rest of you Good luck. Apply liberal doses of chocolate and wine in the meantime. :)
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Your group sounds more like a bee than a guild, actually. That's not a problem, you just have to have someone to stand up and say "go" when you start, right? You all probably could keep on without her input or participation with no problem. Just let it go and plan to have something else in the works next time you all are ready to chose leaders. Nearly every group has a member or two like this. :)
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I agree with toverly - just let it go for now. However make sure at your meetings that you figure out who will be VP next year so the problem will be solved lol.
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About 9 months ago, I was elected to do our guild's newsletter but I had back surgery and have had a poor recovery. My President called me and asked if some else could take over for me and I was so grateful someone stepped up for me. Everyone in my guild have been wonderful and so understanding about my situation.
I think the President should have a heart to heart talk with this lady and suggest since she is unable to attend meetings, she needs someone who is current with meetings and could fill in for the President on a short notice. That is what a VP IS for in our guild. By-laws are nice to have even for a small group so everyone knows what is protocol to follow. imho.... |
It's a little puzzling and i don't think i understand.
You mentioned that you are an officer of the guild, but you don't think there are any by-laws of the guild.....if you do not have by-laws - does the VP actually have any responsibilities??....are the responsibilities of the other officers outlined somewhere?....are there agreed codes of conduct for within the guild? If not, i guess i'm asking how is she not doing her duty if her duty is not spelled out....and how would her not being the VP but just being a member change the behavior that is objectionable within the guild?? I think if you want to have recourse for the kind behavior you're talking about, you would need to have some kind of code of conduct/behavior or by-laws for the group that everyone agrees on. Good luck. |
Say a prayer, treat her as you would like to be treated. Maybe she'll come around, if not, election time will come around before you know it. If she begs a post next time, gently refuse her. In this world of nastiness, we can afford some patience whether we feel someone deserves it or not.
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Sounds to me, as if the current VP has proven that position and herself unnecessary. Since your group is small and rather informal, why not just let one of the other (regularly attending) officers fill in as acting VP, if you should be absent. Since she has so much trouble attending, she should be more than happy to have the burden lifted from her shoulders. A VP is actually supposed to help the president, not just show up uninformed, in case of an emergency.
Is it necessary to announce beforehand, when freebies will be up for grabs? Could they be gathered and held, then brought out during random meetings? |
As its such an informal group why doesn't someone call, go and visit and have a friendly chat, find out if she is finding the duties too much, suggest that your group need a VP who can attend a more often, or as toverly suggested make sure you have a VP lined up for the next year, much better than all the talk going on behind her back.
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I do not belong to a quilting guild but I do belong to a fire company auxiliary. I have held every office except VP for a total longer-running period than any other member of the organization in it's history (over 100 yrs). I do not say this to pat myself on the back, just as background. I do not know if quilting guilds generally are much different from other charitable organizations so if there are guild-specifics of which I am unaware, I apologize.
I agree with Jan in that your organization should have some sort of by-laws where officers' absences are addressed. I also agree with the poster who suggested having a conversation with the offending officer prior to discussion at a meeting. In our auxiliary we have had 'personnel issues' as well. We do have by-laws addressing the above (as well as other) situation specifically but I also believe it is addressed in Robert's Rules of Order - which is our defined default if an issue is not specified in our by-laws. What we have done with a similarly inclined person (non-officer) in our organization, was to have an Executive Board meeting to discuss the issue and potential resolutions. A formal letter was then sent to the offending party, outlining the behaviors that were found to be unacceptable, and a request for a face-to-face meeting with that person and the E-board. That meeting and it's result were never discussed during an open membership meeting. Did that meeting resolve the issue? For a short period of time. That member is still a royal pain in the butt. It did, however, leave the opening for further actions on the auxiliary's part to deal with the problem. Just my suggestion. |
Maybe you could start by defining the responsibilities of each office. Ask her to help defining the duties of vp. If she is capable of seeing the problem that might goose her into working or resigning.
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Well, at least she shows up for the freebies. I would replace her. As to a Vice President "not doing anything", i guess my Guild is the exception to that observation. I depend on my partner (VP) to help me whenever I have been the President of any organization. She needs to be released and replaced. Not fair to others.
sandy |
This happened in our guild a few years ago with the President! I think she showed up for two meetings all year (maybe only one), and the VP had to take on the role of President, which she was unprepared for. It's still a raw nerve with her. The absent President was someone who always had grand intentions and ideas with little to no follow up. She's no longer a member.
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IMHO, the officers who are dedicated need to bring up the thought of making a list of rules for the guild. Use the premiss that the guild is trying to become more organized. At the meeting, ask the members to make a list of what rules they think should apply to the guild, and then discuss them and vote on them. Then send out a list of rules to all members stating that the guild has voted on these rules. You might call all members before this meeting and this would give the VP a heads up that this is what the meeting will be about so she can attend if she wants. That would not single her out if you call all members. One rule that should be discussed is the one that all officers are expected to attend at least 1/2 or 2/3 of the meetings. Also, when you hold your election or appointment of officers, make sure that it is stated that being an officer, you will be expected to be involved with the guild and attend the meetings and money making activities X number of times.
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Originally Posted by janedee
(Post 7110064)
As its such an informal group why doesn't someone call, go and visit and have a friendly chat, find out if she is finding the duties too much, suggest that your group need a VP who can attend a more often, or as toverly suggested make sure you have a VP lined up for the next year, much better than all the talk going on behind her back.
I agree 100%. It confuses me why such a small and informal group would need to be bothered by rules. Go to her house yourself and have a talk. Don't push it off onto someone else, that will just make for bad feelings. |
Originally Posted by toverly
(Post 7109851)
If your Guild is very casual, I would just let it go and not expect anything out of her. Sometimes people want to be in name only. But make certain any duties of the VP get done with or without her.
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Chris what I'm hearing is that you and your group are fed up with some of the goings on (or not goings on), of this member. You are President so you are running the meetings, you have a computer so before your next meeting you should print out a list of questions and make a copy for each member (even ones you don't see often as well as the VP). Talk a little about what your going to be passing out, in that your group has been around for some time and NEEDS to get some GUIDLINES down so EVERYONE knows what to expect from EACH officer (ie:Showing up and SHARING time, DONATING of time and skills, HELPING to raise funds for your group, WORKING to help build a better group, Also how to handle DONATED items to better serve the group, and how to handle the making of items from donated items that MUST be returned to the group in a timely fashion for your foster families or for sale, etc..., etc..., etc...). Then e-mail or send to members that didn't come to the meeting. You might find that people you don't see often start to come back (seeing that someone is starting to take this group and your mission as a helping group more seriously), you might find that this has been part of why your group has stayed so small (because people get up happy with things, they might say something once or keep any eye on how this stuff gets worked out and if it's not then they drop out). This will give your VP a heads up, but also quietly and privately put her on the spot (I doubt that she will see it this way, she doesn't think she does anything wrong). You need to state on the sheet that you will open this up for group discussions at the following meeting and only forms returned to you by the week before your next meeting will be discussed and voted on. This will give you a chance to make your notes and get things ready for the VOTE, having the things listed for your Secretary to put the totals down for each item listed. This way after the break you can let everyone know what was voted in etc..., etc..., etc...
SORRY this was so long, hope you can find something that helps. Good luck |
Thank you all for your input. It's given me a great deal to think about. Our secretary lives next door to her in an apartment complex and has repeatedly reminded her of meetings and activities to find out if she is going to attend. I think my best recourse at this time is to just "Let It Go" as my granddaughters favorite song says and bring up the subject of by-laws at the next meeting. I'll send out a mass e-mail to all members to let them know ahead of time but won't say why we're doing this. My treasurer has been a godsend at helping me with meetings and workshops. She's loaded with ideas and suggestions. Is it possible for someone to hold 2 offices? LOL. As to me not knowing if there are by-laws, I've only been in office since January and our former president has been traveling. I never thought to ask for a printout of the by-laws and they have never been discussed at any previous meetings in the last 5 years since I've been member.
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Originally Posted by bunnydonaldson
(Post 7110008)
Say a prayer, treat her as you would like to be treated. Maybe she'll come around, if not, election time will come around before you know it. If she begs a post next time, gently refuse her. In this world of nastiness, we can afford some patience whether we feel someone deserves it or not.
How does she find out about the give-a-ways? Maybe have this happen oftener? Elections will come up soon. Have someone ready to run. Otherwise, just ignore the situation and don't let it get under everyone's skin. |
Well said Bunny Donaldson. "Say a prayer" is always the right answer.
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Originally Posted by twinkie
(Post 7110180)
IMHO, the officers who are dedicated need to bring up the thought of making a list of rules for the guild. Use the premiss that the guild is trying to become more organized. At the meeting, ask the members to make a list of what rules they think should apply to the guild, and then discuss them and vote on them. Then send out a list of rules to all members stating that the guild has voted on these rules. You might call all members before this meeting and this would give the VP a heads up that this is what the meeting will be about so she can attend if she wants. That would not single her out if you call all members. One rule that should be discussed is the one that all officers are expected to attend at least 1/2 or 2/3 of the meetings. Also, when you hold your election or appointment of officers, make sure that it is stated that being an officer, you will be expected to be involved with the guild and attend the meetings and money making activities X number of times.
If you have a full set of officers, you NEED something to refer back to. They do not have to be 'by-laws' but all points that need to be taken into consideration for those holding an office. Each officer accepts the title, it should be considered a 'job' and what company would let this go on. You could make a plan to be late at one meeting, let her know she needs to take over, plan to come in during the meeting. That way everyone can see how prepared she is to hold the office. The group maybe small but you need organization, starting sooner than later. When do you have the next election. |
That would be a big problem in the guild I belong to. The vice president is head of our program committee.
I think giving her a courtesy call would be a nice thing to do. Then, maybe it's time to have at least a definition of the duties of the officers. |
Originally Posted by AChristina
(Post 7110274)
Thank you all for your input. It's given me a great deal to think about. Our secretary lives next door to her in an apartment complex and has repeatedly reminded her of meetings and activities to find out if she is going to attend. I think my best recourse at this time is to just "Let It Go" as my granddaughters favorite song says and bring up the subject of by-laws at the next meeting. I'll send out a mass e-mail to all members to let them know ahead of time but won't say why we're doing this. My treasurer has been a godsend at helping me with meetings and workshops. She's loaded with ideas and suggestions. Is it possible for someone to hold 2 offices? LOL. As to me not knowing if there are by-laws, I've only been in office since January and our former president has been traveling. I never thought to ask for a printout of the by-laws and they have never been discussed at any previous meetings in the last 5 years since I've been member.
Does your group have a 501C? If not then it is not Non-profit. Is your group taking down minutes? All non-profit groups are supposed to keep detailed minutes, member roll call, financial records & treasurer reports. Often groups will also list how many meetings each member must attend to remain in the group thru out the year. If they miss too many for reasons other than health or work (also must notify E-Board member before meeting they will miss & why) then they are let go. Same as above...a E-board meeting is held, member discussed, face to face meeting, decision made. Normally one person can not hold 2 E-Board offices. It's considered a violation of conflict. It sounds like this person wants to belong to as many groups/organizations as she can to get freebies. Or her health really does get in the way. Either way if she can not fulfill her duties as an officer then she should be replaced, but permitted to remain a member if she choses to. |
I reaad the original post again. And again.
What is the purpose of this group? How often do you meet? I think the following activities were listed: Holding meetings Making donation quilts Having fundraisers Having workshops Bringing items to share/donate Receiving donations from outsiders Taking shared/donated items Complaining about the current vice president What are the funds for? Do you have membership dues? If your main purpose is making items to donate to others - is there a need for officers? It would make sense to have a leader and/ or contact person for accdpting donations and distributing finished items. I belong to a small group - our main purpose is to get together once a month in one of our homes. We have show and tell - chit chat - and something go eat. No dues. Our members are very talented people - but we mostly do our own things by ourselves. I have been a member of this group for 18 years. If there are only five members - and four officers - ? Does the group seem to be growing? I do agree with a large group that guidelines/ rules are helpful. |
In this world of nastiness, we can afford some patience whether we feel someone deserves it or not.
Patience for this type of behavior only enforces the behavior. Ask her why she is acting like this and not doing her job and then make a decision to ask her leave or welcome her with open arms. |
Here are several examples of current bylaws of quilt guilds. If your group doesn't have bylaws, then you have no rules, therefore, no recourse to any type actions or non-actions by anyone. I'd find out if your guild has bylaws and if not, do as simple a version as possible using these as an example and get it approved by the membership. Then you can make decisions based on the bylaws. Until then good luck with your absent VP.
http://www.ashevillequiltguild.org/Guild%20By-Laws.pdf http://helenaquiltersguild.org/bylaws.html http://www.ucquilts.com/bylaws.htm |
Since you are a small group...see if you can hold a meeting at her home, since she has health issues...she may be down and need a few friends to pick her up. Let her know that any snacks/drinks will be brought, she has to do nothing but enjoy the company.
I think we sometimes aren't aware when a person is depressed due to illness, or family members illness. I'd even offer to come early and help her clean/set up an area in her home to meet (move chairs around, put on coffee or tea, etc.) in. Then stay and help straighten/clean up after. It may get her wanting to be more involved.
Originally Posted by AChristina
(Post 7109541)
I'm president of a very small quilt guild, we average about 6 - 12 members at our monthly meetings and workshops. We held elections last November and this is the first time I've held office. Our VP, who has held that office for at least 3 years that I know of, said she would be willing to serve again, so she was re-elected. We've had 6 meetings/group activities since then and she hasn't attended any of them. We sold items at a craft show just before Christmas our members had made to raise funds for our guild, she didn't donate items or her time. We've made quilts for a local foster family, 27 in all, with fabric that was donated to the guild, she didn't finish her quilt. She hasn't attended regular meetings or workshops, but she's the first in line if she's at meeting where fabric has been donated to be used by the guild or if members had brought in unwanted fabric or sewing tools. She says she'll come to the next meeting, but the day of or before, she says she isn't up to it. We know she has health problems but how many meetings would you let her miss before you speak up? Our Treasurer, Secretary and I feel 2 more missed meetings and we need to replace her with someone who is willing to donate their time and skills. Any ideas on how to do this tactfully would be greatly appreciated.
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I have seen officers of my guild do the same thing. They do have families and lives outsides of guilds. In fact the last two years I have missed so many meetings and I really feel bad about it. I have had several health issues and that has kept me away, but I do contact someone from the guild to see if there is anything I could assist with. Maybe someone need to invite her to coffee (or some invite) and just socialize with her. You may find there is something that is going on with her. It could also be the time to present your concerns for not supporting the group and ask if she would like a replacement for the remainder of the year, if she cannot complete her responsibilities. Good luck and just remember there may be a good reason that she is not sharing.
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There are several good ideas expressed by other QB members. I think she should be notified that a meeting will be held to discuss asking her to resign because she does not attend meetings, something that goes without saying. I was president of a very large guild - 125 members - and there were always people who wanted a certain position, but then never showed up or just neglected to do the job she was elected for. You could call a special meeting to elect a new VP, or you could just let her term expire and make sure she does not get elected, as in if she were nominated, if there is no second, the nomination dies. My guild also had problems with donated fabric being taken home and no charity quilts made, it happens, but someone needs to be responsible for seeing that nobody takes an excessive amount of fabric and a rule made that it has to be made into a charity quilt. Unfortunately, there will always be people who feel entitled to hold an office without attending meetings, or taking advantage of donated fabric and using it for themselves. I would like to hear how you handled this situation, if you would like to share.
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Originally Posted by AChristina
(Post 7110274)
Thank you all for your input. It's given me a great deal to think about. Our secretary lives next door to her in an apartment complex and has repeatedly reminded her of meetings and activities to find out if she is going to attend. I think my best recourse at this time is to just "Let It Go" as my granddaughters favorite song says and bring up the subject of by-laws at the next meeting. I'll send out a mass e-mail to all members to let them know ahead of time but won't say why we're doing this. My treasurer has been a godsend at helping me with meetings and workshops. She's loaded with ideas and suggestions. Is it possible for someone to hold 2 offices? LOL. As to me not knowing if there are by-laws, I've only been in office since January and our former president has been traveling. I never thought to ask for a printout of the by-laws and they have never been discussed at any previous meetings in the last 5 years since I've been member.
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I am in a group of sewers and we are having the same problem. But this person was NOT elected to run the meeting but somehow she got hold of the bell and is sending out unnecessary emails. She is ALSO first in line for donated fabric making others of us to grab something otherwise she will walk out with all she can carry. Very sad.
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any guild I've ever been part of, the VP in addition to whatever else, was Always president the following year. The VP year giving he or she a chance to enter the presidency running. It has been many years since saying you were VP of something was simply a place for ego to preen.
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She does suffer from depression whether real or imaginary. The apartment housing she lives in is the same as my sister-in-law who is the secretary. There are 2 other women that live there also and the 4 of them get together once a week for a meal and are always doing something together. VP doesn't drive or have a car and she lives by herself. She's quit before and then decides to come back after a couple of months while she was VP last year. I think we'll just have to leave things as they are and if she doesn't show up, that's her problem. I'll just ask the treasurer or secretary or the former president to preside over any meetings I may not be able to attend. Thank you for all your input. I'm glad I posted this thread, because my husband always tells me I open my mouth too soon without thinking.
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As a member of several quilt guilds and 3 professional groups....you should/have to attend 3 meetings, then you are on probation for 3 more, then if you don't show-up, you are no longer an officer. But you should have this stated in you rules and guidelines to be an officer.
Hope this helps Robinlee |
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