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I have not read all these posts and have not attended many shows, but I think different aspects of a quilt can be judged on different levels.
Design Complexity/difficulty Use of color/fabric Piecing Quilting Binding Overall finished product Other? Seems to me hand quilting should not be judged with machine quilting: two very different skills and end result Some quilts have great color choices but may be pieced badly (or just not perfect) I think it should be broken down and separated. If one quilt wins several areas, then it is '"best in show." Or something. Do they allow for visitors to vote on their favorite quilt? Seems to me all these areas are noteworthy. Beginners might have a category of their own? (went to a robotics event recently where the rookies got recognition for their first accomplishments) There is room for lots of people to be rewarded for different levels. Different strokes for different folks... There are always some folks who win everything: I saw the Mona Lisa in Paris and was not impressed. Couldn't even get close but I understand the value of the painting in history. I prefer the Impressionists. Even so, Monet was not the only one! I don't expect to win anything, ever. For anything I do. I do it because it makes me feel good and because I like to create. Period. It's too bad some folks get ignored. That's just the way it is. |
This is called ethics. Some folks operate with ethical behaviors naturally and others do not because they do not understand the implications of their actions. I would hope that the guild organizers would graciously address this with the quilter you referenced and suggest how she could make some changes in her actions making it more fair for everyone to participate in the "competition of quilting."
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I am curious about this. Suppose I want a beautiful whole cloth quilt. I buy white fabric and send it to a LA. She does a wonderful job. I enter it into a show, giving her credit, and win.
All for my 2 checks and no effort. Could it happen? |
I do not go to or enter quilt shows anymore because of these many reasons at one time I was very involved with quilt shows I made quilts for shows even had one go to paducah one time but that was in the days before the computers and each person truly made their own quilts it was fun to work as a scribe but now very few people make their own quilts from beginning to finish and they are designed by computers the show that truly turned me off was won by a quilt completely computer done machine embroidered and machine quilted beside it was a beautiful hand quilted quilt without a mention and I just decided this is not for me anymore I still enjoy making quilts but I do not enter them
just my thoughts thanks for letting me vent |
Originally Posted by Lori S
(Post 5088892)
Having seen great quilts made by locals get trumped by professionals who have already won many or much recognitions. It is sad that they feel the need to play their quilt like a trump card. I think well written rules regarding the entry or classification can go far in if not eliminating or reducing this from happening. I find the comparision of the olympics amataur vs pro to be spot on. In my day we all called it bringing in a "ringer". Such "ringers" often defeat the intent of the show, and leave a lasting "bad taste" for those who wanted to have a high ethical standard. But unless there is a statement in the rules of submitting works that encompass what is the exeptable submission , then those "trump" cards can hold there head up and say " I have done nothing wrong".
I have seen many shows that do not allow kit quilts, or at least put them in a seperate category so that in viewing and judging , the value for pattern and fabrics selected are not valued in the judgment. I love going to Quilt National , all works must be original , never been shown , or published either via book, magazine , or any media. There have been some shows in my area that ,previously judged and shown quilts are allowed in for viewing after a certain number of years , but can not be in the compitition. That way a wide number of quilts can be shown to the public but keeps the judging portion of the show to only new works. |
Originally Posted by jaciqltznok
(Post 5088244)
I have great issues with a person who designs, and pieces a quilt, PAYS the quilter to quilt it and then has to give credit to the quilter!!!....If a person pays for the service to me that is a bought item like the thread, batting etc. Especially if the quilt is NOT being judged on the quilting, but on the design/piecing. SO I would say if a person PAID for the binding to be on, then it was like paying for the thread, and NO I would not consider that a "group" quilt!
If you go that far, then if the person used a jelly roll that was PRE-cut by someone else, and a store bought binding, would it then also be a Group quilt? When does it stop? |
in our quilt show,a quilt can not have been shown in a any previous show.,unlessit is used as a" filler",thereforenot eligible to be judged or win ribbons.This year the quilt that I entered,I had professionally quilted,and it had to be entered as a two person quilt,whic is only fair.A lot of times the quilting makes the quilt
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We had a SITUATION at our fair a couple years ago that sure got the fur flying. One woman had entered 8 fantastic quilts that year. She a well known very accomplished local quilter, but there were MANY LOVELY QUILTS entered in the fair from all over our area. The display areas are limited but someone had HUNG allll 8 of this woman's quilt entries while the other quilts (also with well deserved blue ribbons) were folded up on tables. People aren't allowed to touch the the quilts on tables so...basically it ended up being almost a private TRUNK SHOW for this woman. There were some scathing letters to the editor over that one. It wasn't her fault, but the supervisor of that project should have thought about HOW that was going to look to everyone. It did not fly well at all.
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Also, I have my fair quilts machine quilted by a local lady who does a lovely job. The quilting is ALWAYS noted as having been done by someone else. I think that's only fair.
Personally, I think our fair does a fine job of taking all skill levels of the local quilters into consideration by the way they divide the entry categories. IMO.....a quilt that is completely hand quilted (by the person who made the quilt) should never be judged in the same category as a quilt that was machine quilted by a second party. . |
Originally Posted by caspharm
(Post 5089076)
I know the categories we had in the county fair, which one of our guild members (a former president and LA'er),is the coordinator for the Home Arts, has rules set up. There are categories for professionals, amateurs, whether the piecer had also quilted the quilt or sent it to a professional quilter, as well as computerized vs. hand guided quilted, hand-quilting, and group quilts.
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Originally Posted by Dodie
(Post 5091252)
I do not go to or enter quilt shows anymore because of these many reasons at one time I was very involved with quilt shows I made quilts for shows even had one go to paducah one time but that was in the days before the computers and each person truly made their own quilts it was fun to work as a scribe but now very few people make their own quilts from beginning to finish and they are designed by computers the show that truly turned me off was won by a quilt completely computer done machine embroidered and machine quilted beside it was a beautiful hand quilted quilt without a mention and I just decided this is not for me anymore I still enjoy making quilts but I do not enter them
just my thoughts thanks for letting me vent |
Originally Posted by Highmtn
(Post 5091383)
We had a SITUATION at our fair a couple years ago that sure got the fur flying. One woman had entered 8 fantastic quilts that year. She a well known very accomplished local quilter, but there were MANY LOVELY QUILTS entered in the fair from all over our area. The display areas are limited but someone had HUNG allll 8 of this woman's quilt entries while the other quilts (also with well deserved blue ribbons) were folded up on tables. People aren't allowed to touch the the quilts on tables so...basically it ended up being almost a private TRUNK SHOW for this woman. There were some scathing letters to the editor over that one. It wasn't her fault, but the supervisor of that project should have thought about HOW that was going to look to everyone. It did not fly well at all.
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Many years ago unknown to me my daughter entered my cathedral window into our county fair and to my amazement it won a blue ribbon. I remember looking at the other wonderful quilts that had been submitted and being very proud that mine hung with theirs.
That was the first and only time I ever had a quilt shown. I think there is to much commercialism and politics in this multi-million dollar business now (I say business because that is what it is). I am comfortable and happy to participate in my guild, do charity quilts and have fun:) |
I quilt for my own pleasure and would never enter a quilt in any kind of show. There seems to be a lot of big egos and dishonest people entering into them. No way could I or would I subject myself to something like that.
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THANK YOU for sharing all of this information. I am hoping I can get out antiquated fair board to realize this is more inline with what we need!
Originally Posted by azwendyg
(Post 5089017)
I really like the way our county fair categorizes quilts. Each size/type category has lot numbers to enter:
Made by one person-hand quilted, (everything, start to finish) Made by more than one person-hand quilted, (where a quilt would fit if a second non-professional person did the binding for example) Made by one person, professionally quilted, Made by more than one person, professionally quilted. Made by one person-machine quilted, (everything, start to finish) Made by more than one person-machine quilted, (where a quilt would fit if a second non-professional person did the binding or quilting for example) And they go so far as to define "professional" as someone who makes at least 10% of their income from quilting. These categories help to keep the judging on a more "level playing field", and there are a lot more ribbons awarded than if they were all judged together. I believe this categorization allows each quilt to be judged on the skill of execution of each type of quiltmaking. To be eligible for entry, the quilt must have been made within the past year by a resident of our county. The only thing they do not address is whether the design is original or not. I think the "Best of Show" last year may have been a very well executed KIT even though their were MANY very good originally designed quilts there. It was a little disheartening to see a kit-type quilt win when I'd seen essentially the same quilt at the LQS, in magazines, and in catalogs for sale as a pattern and/or kit all year long. |
I quilt for my own pleasure and would never enter a quilt in any kind of show. There seems to be a lot of big egos and dishonest people entering into them. No way could I or would I subject myself to something like that.
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Originally Posted by JustAbitCrazy
(Post 5091044)
Those of you who think credit does not need to be given to the longarmer obviously have never spent many hours longarming a customer quilt, doing a semi-custom or custom job (which works out to only a couple dollars per hour), only to have the quilter enter and win a judged show without giving any credit to the longarmer. I know a longarmer this happened to. It is dishonest, pure and simple. It is also a dishonest way to win, unfair to the other entrants who also used a longarmer and correctly entered their quilts in the group category. Of course credit should always be given where credit is due!
I don't know the answer, but I question this. |
Originally Posted by Sadiemae
(Post 5091700)
Custom quilts are one thing, but what about quilts that are quilted with all over computertized pantos? What about the LQS where the employees run the machines all day/ every day/ 6 days a week? Are the quilt shows really meant to be free advertising???
I don't know the answer, but I question this. Just because several quilts in a show are done by the same LQS or individual longarmer doesn't mean they shouldn't be given credit because it might be "free advertising." I would venture a guess that at least half the quilts entered in our fair are going to be quilted by one longarm quilter. Everybody will give her credit and enter in the appropriate category. |
Originally Posted by Sadiemae
(Post 5091700)
Custom quilts are one thing, but what about quilts that are quilted with all over computertized pantos? What about the LQS where the employees run the machines all day/ every day/ 6 days a week? Are the quilt shows really meant to be free advertising???
I don't know the answer, but I question this. A good friend of mine quilts for others - even if the computer is driving the machine, she still has to stand there in case something goes wrong. It is physically hard work, and I don't think she gets paid nearly enough for what she does. Janet |
Yes, I am interested in having a separate section for the hand pieced, machine pieced, etc but also The hands on longarmers different from the computerized long arm machines. Computerized long arm machine I think are for professional (store bought quilt) shows because the majority of quilters are self taught and self worked and should be judged separately. I really don't think its fair for hands on quilting long arms or mid or short long armers to be in competition with the Computerized machines. Also, a separate catagory for those that "Do it themselves" need more credit.
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The reason I buy quilt pattern magazines is to use them to make a quilt.
Rules & regulations of showing them are getting so strict, it's scary to me. |
My guild just finished their quilt show this past weekend. It was the first time with this guild that I participated in the show. From the discussion on this thread I now understand the reason for the restrictions of quilts eligible and for the process in showing a quilt.
But I have to say that in looking at quilts in our show, I could sometimes see who the maker was by the design or quality of the work in the quilt. In some respect, I think you will always have somewhat of a popularity contest in a quilt show be it a popular design, popular technique or embellishment, or popular fabrics. Just my opinion. |
Originally Posted by Rose Marie
(Post 5088922)
Even pet shows have pure breeds and domestic categorys.
Quilting professionals should have a category of there own and non professionals should have a different category. It is not fair to group them togather. |
I fall somewhere in the middle in the attribution game.
I do believe that the long-arm quilter, or whomever has been paid to quilt the quilt if that was done, needs to be recognized. As can be read in countless posts, there are many varieties in skill level of quilters, and the quilter can make a huge artistic difference to the pieced top. I'm not as set on if a person is paid to bind a quilt that they become part of the "group" though in a technical sense, I suppose that makes sense. However, I think it takes less skill to sew a binding on correctly than it does to FMQ a large quilt top, so I'm less concerned about that. As to sharing prize money. I think that should be spelled out in the "purchase" agreement when a quilt is sent off to be quilted - and I lean towards, if I pay you to quilt my top, then I'm not sharing prize money as I've already paid you. If, on the other hand, the quilt is done collaboratively and no money changes hands prior to it being entered, then sharing the prize money is the right thing to do. I don't have a problem with quilts being shared online as they are being constructed. However, if a show's rules state that the quilt should not have been shown before, then it needs to be honored as such. I do blog about my works in progress (though hockey season ate this quilter's free time, so I have neither quilted nor blogged much recently). Cheers, K |
Wow! You have certainly given us a lot to think about!
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Thanks Jacqi, for starting this thread - which has turned out to be one of the most interesting I've read lately. Lots of great thoughful contributions. Thanks Holice for giving us the Judge's side of the story.
I entered quilts in a show long ago, and I learned a lot from the judges' comments. I have not entered my quilts in shows since then - but mainly because I'm never organized enough in time. I've noticed that the BIG shows do have separate pro and amateur categories. This is less true of smaller shows. A well known previous BIG show winner took best of show at the Tucson quilt show a year or 2 ago, and I felt sort of cheated. I'm glad that the Tucson show is being noticed enough that major players are entering, but I wish they would make NEW quilts to enter instead of recycling ones that have already won a prize! I'm not a member of the local guild, so I don't know if they have changed the rules - this year's winners did not appear to have won previous shows. I agree with all who have pointed out that it's the RULES that are 'at fault' not the quilters - for the most part. Of course, a few people may choose to bend the rules, and that's sad. So, I'll continue to enjoy myself at quilt shows, often wondering why THIS quilt or THAT quilt won when another that appeals more to me didn't. The best of show winners usually take my breath away! |
These rules are what keep me from entering anything into a show. When I go, you can tell the professionally computerized LA'd quilts from the rest. I use a LA'er and I know that it is her work that makes my piecing pop.
Times they are a-changing and we need to change with them. LA'ers are here to stay but they should be acknowledged as part of the process. |
I've never entered a quilt in a show, but over the years various family members as well as myself have entered other things in our local county fair.
I definitely agree that the categories can definitely be problematic. One year I entered a counted cross stitch that I had put many hours of thought and struggle into combining elements of two different patterns into a single fairly large picture. The category was won by a small kit entry. I did not begrudge her the win as it was very well done, but would have liked to have been competing with others who had at least partially done their own designing. However in a small show that doesn't happen...most likely mine would have been the only one in the category, so no competition possible. What was ironic was that same year I had purely by chance had an amarylis that I got on clearance after Christmas burst into bloom at just the right time to win best in show in the houseplant category! Go figure...no skill or anything went into that one. And I know that personal preference is not going to go away in judging, particularly in the art categories. My best friend and I have observed for years that if it is not a particular style or subject matter then that piece of art work won't stand a chance at our county fair. And it's not even always the same people doing the judging. |
Our local quilt show, which includes about 400 quilts, has had a "masters" category for the last few years. If you are nationally known or published that's the only category you can compete in. There's also a challenge category which a lot of our local quilters enter. I always enter that category because I love seeing what others do with the same fabrics and theme. I've learned something each year I've entered.
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Lots of different categories, with each quilt having a very specific category to be in, is obviously the best way to handle a quilt show. And usually there are many categories in the large shows. The problem occurs on a smaller, local level. In a small quilt show there just aren't enough entrants to have a multitude of categories. You'd end up with very few quilts in each category, and it could happen that there were only four quilts in one category. Then in that category everyone would be a winner with one poor soul singled out as "not a winner". Bad, bad, bad. Can't have that. Much as we'd like it to be, it's just not a perfect world, even for us quilters. (sigh)
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I bought a longarm so that I could quilt my own quilts. When I give them as gifts, and people ask if I made them, I wouldn't feel right just saying yes if I had someone else do the quilting.
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I don't (at least I haven't yet) enter quilts in shows, but think that it's the execution and quality of the execution...from the color choices to the stitching, to the completed quilt that should be judged. I use patterns sometimes (usually change them up...find easier ways to do them), but mostly I do traditional quilts (Irish Chain, Carpenter's star, Lonestar, etc.)...For these, wouldn't they be judged on what fabrics I chose, how my stitching is, do my seams match up?, etc... then the quilting ... Did I choose a complementary design to quilt? Did I do the quilting? Binding...I think that plays a part...Do I want credit if I bind a quilt for someone? Not really... Do I want credit if I am the quilter? That would be nice, but not really necessary...unless it's a whole-cloth quilt...then the quilter should get credit. I put on hanging sleeves, and I don't expect credit for those. I guess it's in the hands of the group who make up their quilt show rules.
A judge, if they know who made a quilt...and that person is a pro...I'm betting the judge is being extra picky on that quilt, and they should be. If you want "Best in Show"...spend 2-3 years on your quilts, as these pros do. We spend three months & feel it's a long time. It's very exacting work, doing a quilt when others expect so much from the work of the "pros"....they were once beginners too. |
Why not? You made the quilt & paid to have it quilted...fair statement, right?
Originally Posted by ljfox
(Post 5092587)
I bought a longarm so that I could quilt my own quilts. When I give them as gifts, and people ask if I made them, I wouldn't feel right just saying yes if I had someone else do the quilting.
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This is why I would never enter a quilt in a show. I don't think any of mine would win a prize but it would be disheartening to be up against a quilt that has already won several years in a row. Here in Brisbane one particular quilt was entered 3 years in a row and won something each time. I learned early on that the same people win year in year out. Yes the judges can pick their work. I used to deliver flowers and after a few months could pick most florist's work just by looking at it. I have seen quilts that have been featured in magazines and of course most people have seen the magazines. I think once a quilt has won and and been extensively featured in the media it's time to retire it and start on the next one. Entering work (which has already won in the big shows) in small local shows is pure greed on the makers part. How many accolade do they need. By all means put the quilt on display but leave the competition open for others. Just MHO.
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We have a local guild quilt show here and last year I was amazed to find that the quilt which won "Best of Show" was a kit. I was extremely disappointed. I would think that category would include the piecer picking her own fabrics (even if she used a pattern) and executing the quilt top on her own. Now the actual quilting is another story....each quilt is broken down into "maker" and "quilter". IMHO.
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Doesn't matter what you show in anything that you show, there is always questions. That is a "show" thing and if people don't like it I say don't show. Got to do the best you can and go on. I don't know how many quilt judges have time to sit around and visit blogs and then remember where they saw quilts in the process of being made. Seems like probably have more to do than blog hop. I think most judges do the best they can most of the time.
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Originally Posted by Charlee
(Post 5088330)
If you're judging on design and piecing, then should it not be just a quilt top and not yet quilted? You're judging the workmanship of a quilt, then I think the LA quilter should be included, as it's his/her workmanship that is the quilting, not that of the person that pieced the top.
JMO, but paying for a skill like quilting is NOT the same as paying for an inert object like thread or binding. We all know that lousy quilting can ruin the looks of a quilt, just as fabulous quilting can make the quilt a work of art.... |
Quilting can make or break a quilt. It can be an exquisite quilt but the design of the quilting can ruin it. It does not matter if it is a panto, computerized, freehand, it is still machine quilted. It takes great expertise to do. It takes months of practice to be able to follow a panto perfectly, freehand perfectly, and yes, choose the correct pattern, size it to the quilt, do mirroring, insets, etc. perfectly. You don't just walk up to a LA and start quilting a competition quilt. There are things like what weight of thread to use, should it show or sink into the quilt, colors, batting, softly showing the design, a harder face like W&N where it is more of a flat surface. So many things go into deciding before you ever even load a quilt onto the machine. It is not easy, and it is a great responsibility. If the quilt does not lay flat when it comes to you, you have to try ironing it flat, then use your expertise to quilt it flat because the lady wants to take home a flat quilt. If it isn't loaded correctly, it will finish lopsided. So many things have to be taken into account. Don't think LA is easier than hand quilting or domestic machine quilting, even if computerized or pantos are used. They deserve their moment in the limelight if a quilt wins because it is partly their expertise in competition that made the quilt win.
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I used to judge needlework shows and kits were used a great deal. So how to choose the best? 1. Quality of work 2. Selection of a well designed kit 3. Framing/finished choices that fit the design.
The same type of judging should go into quilt judging, of which I've done a fair amount. Used to judge a LARGE county fair with 300+ quilts by myself. One quilt was covered with animal hair--I mean covered! Declined to judge it, with a notation on the entry card that said, "I don't judge cat hair." I then opened the card up and discovered the maker's name. A very recognizable name!. Shame on her, she should have known better. But to judge any kind of competition, the judge must be fair and consider the quality of the work from composition, color, overall appearance (for instance, do the borders/binding wave or are they flat and square), techniques used appropriately and quality of workmanship. It's not an easy judge to be impartial, but it is also very rewarding. Don't forget, a judge can recognize a friend's quilt in the competition. In that instance, she should do one of two things, disqualify herself from judging that category OR be impartial--and, yes, it is possible. SandyQuilter |
Originally Posted by ptquilts
(Post 5088764)
If someone is a famous designer/quilter and has a website and publishing patterns and books, making money from it,etc., why do they need the extra adulation of winning a prize? To me it reminds me of when they let professionals in the Olympics. The pros get paid millions of dollars, let the amateurs have the glory of winning the Olympics.
As far as more than one person working on the quilt, I used to hand quilt for a published designer/quiltmaker and I noticed when the books came out some of the captions would be, "pieced by Jane Smith" (not the author), "hand quilted by Barb" - so all the author did was design it. Not sure how I would feel about that if a quilt like that was entered in a show (as far as I know they weren't). I'm kind of different here, but I'm kind of surprised that professionals have the time needed to actually piece their own quilts. And it is often the amateurs who beat out the professionals at the Olympics, at least in technical point type things like ice skating and gymnastics. I guess the professionals get sloppy?? I've only seen quilts at the AK state fair and our local fair in FL, so I'm no expert on shows, but if the quilt is being judged on piecing, quilting, and binding, then, IMO, if different people did it, then they should all be listed as participants. I had no idea that anyone would enter a quilt that they hadn't done themselves--all of it. That seems part of it, to me. However, as to the idea of precuts or kits, or whatever--i suppose it is whatever the rules are. If the rules say that it has to be an ORIGINAL DESIGN by the seamstress, then, so be it--all quilt kits should be eliminated. If however, there is nothing about it in the rules, then let them be. They probably won't win for originality, anyway, but if the workmanship is superb, then so be it. Since I'm no professional, I didn't recognize any of the names of the "famous quilters" listed here so far. If someone had said "Quilter's Cache" or Bonnie Hunter, etc...then I'd recognize them...;0 Could someone link to a list of the typical rules for entering a quilt into a show? |
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