what are your thoughts on...
 

famous quilter's posting pix of their works in progress on the internet via blogs/Facebook and then entering them in local shows, where of course their piece wins, because it is highly recognizable as being their work!

Whatever happened to the anonymity of the entries maker for the sake of fair judging?

I saw this happen at the OKcity show in Jan and was appalled. A well known, semi-famous lady had 3 pieces entered. ONE of them was a piece she had entered in the same show back in 2009 and had won with it! Everyone knows her work just by looking at it, but she travels the state showing them off, so they are nothing NEW when she enters in them a local show. Of course she wins, everybody wants to score points with the famous people...was hers better than the rest, NO they were not!

I think when a person chooses to share their pieces of work in progress via the internet, then they should avoid entering them in local shows.

Same with the local fairs...if you have won best of show at Paducah do you really need to enter your work at the local fair?

Have any of you seen this in your shows?

All the time.....It is difficult as a judge to be impartial when we see these quilts and they do get very careful evaluation by me as well as those with whom I judge. The story is told that one quilter who won at a big show where the quilt had to be given up if the prize money was taken, refused the money because the maker could earn more traveling the quilt. Now this is heresay but I saw the quilt in a later show and it didn't win best of show - another great quit did. Another difficult situation is when we see a quilt that has been in magazines where a kit was available.
How do we judge design when we suspect the design was not the quilt maker's. I once saw a quilt that had been entered in a group category and I recognized the quilt and internally questioned the origin of the quilt. When the signage was added I saw it had been made by the designer and those who had helped her make it. It was the quilt on her pattern book. These are indeed difficult decisions. Quilting is becoming "courisier and courisier".......(did I spell it right). I judged a show a few years ago where in one category there were 8 quilts all made by very well known quilter/designers and when we walked down the row we three judges named the maker. How can you judge such a situation as that. Having said all this.....no one should be discouraged from entering their quilts. It can be a learning experience for the quilt maker. Read the rules and be sure and enter in the correct category and do the best workmanship you can
Back to the quilt that had been previously entered.....The show committee should write their rules to avoid this. That is the reason some say that the quilt should not have been entered in other shows or made in a certain time period.

Let me ask this question which came up recently in discussion. If a quilt has been made and quilted by one person but binding had been put on by a second, should it be considered a group quilt?

Now, while I have the floor so to speak. A few years ago I judged a show that had a large number of very ordinary quilts entered. They were simple designs. Not the "wow" quilts..... and they won ribbons. So, simple is still recognized. Off my box now.

Holice I love when you JUMP in..hehehe
thank you for your words of wisdom.
I am "learning" to be a quilt judge for our County fairs, but would love to carry that further.

it is very difficult to judge non-biased when the persons works are so easily recognizable or are published via the internet! Thus stricter rules are being hashed out for this years show entries.

I have great issues with a person who designs, and pieces a quilt, PAYS the quilter to quilt it and then has to give credit to the quilter!!!....If a person pays for the service to me that is a bought item like the thread, batting etc. Especially if the quilt is NOT being judged on the quilting, but on the design/piecing. SO I would say if a person PAID for the binding to be on, then it was like paying for the thread, and NO I would not consider that a "group" quilt!
If you go that far, then if the person used a jelly roll that was PRE-cut by someone else, and a store bought binding, would it then also be a Group quilt?

When does it stop?

Oh my word! I never knew so many things went into a quilt judging. I am glad I just do it for fun and use. Teresa

If you're judging on design and piecing, then should it not be just a quilt top and not yet quilted? You're judging the workmanship of a quilt, then I think the LA quilter should be included, as it's his/her workmanship that is the quilting, not that of the person that pieced the top.

JMO, but paying for a skill like quilting is NOT the same as paying for an inert object like thread or binding. We all know that lousy quilting can ruin the looks of a quilt, just as fabulous quilting can make the quilt a work of art....

I think what shows people enter their quilts in is their business. Above all else a judge is supposed to judge the quilt on its merits in the category it's entered into without consideration for who the quilt maker is or if they've seen the quilt somewhere else.

Oh Charlee, I agree with you! A longarmer deserves to be both paid and recognized. However, if a longarmer is paid, then I don't think she should receive part of any prize money that the quilt wins, unless this was previously agreed. I don't enter quilts in judged shows, so I don't have a lot of wisdom on the subject, but I have served as helper to the judge at the local fair (helping lay out the quilts for the judge's inspection with my mouth firmly closed to keep my opinions to myself). I know that even at the local venue, the judge (from another town) was able to pick out quilts made by the same person, although I don't think she necessarily knew or cared at all who that person was. It seems to me that the judges should have enough integrity and experience to judge a quilt on its own merits, even though they know whose quilt it is. I don't have any problem seeing the same quilt in multiple shows, and I guess it's up to the venue to specify how new the quilt should be and what the categories are. I've heard from many quilters that the quilt's date is the time the last stitch was put in it, so if they want to enter a quilt in a show that limits the years it was made, they just have to take another stitch to make it new. I don't subscribe to that theory. Once the quilt is bound, it's done, and adding something else does not change its completion date.

I do have to say that I am SO PROUD that one of the members of my small local guild had a quilt accepted into Paducah this year, and that same quilt hung in our local non-judged shows. I can't go to Paducah, but I'm happy I got to see a quilt that is going.

There is certain basic information I would like to see with all quilts at a show - year made, designer and pattern name if there was one, piecer's name, quilter's name and status (professional or not), equipment used in quilting (by hand, DSM, freehand longarm, computerized longarm). Although I don't really care who put on the binding, I would like to think that the names of all who worked on the quilt in any capacity are included with the entry. But I never thought about someone else cutting the fabrics, as with jelly rolls. I really don't think that's an issue, any more than whether the person used scissors, rotary cutter, or other method to cut the fabric. But wow, so much to think about.

Also I see the word design alot in here, there are a lot of people who don't design quilts and use patterns and would like to enters show. I think there are far too many rules for this endeavor. I want to enter one of mine, but now I have to think about the designer, the quilter, etc. when I am the one who spent hours piecing, choosing the right colors. I agree, where does it end.

I saw several quilts at the Dallas Quilt Celebration this year that were made from kits. I recognized these from seeing them in Keepsake Quilting catalogs. I guess that's OK, but I felt slightly cheated?

I was organizer for 2 community centennial quilt shows with a little over 100 quilts entered in each. We had unusual catagories: most unique, most colorful, oldest, quilt entered from farthest distance, and of course viewers choice and judges choice. Mine were not to be included in judging so I used my grandchildren and several ladies who know nothing about quilting as well as a couple of experienced quilters as judges. AND everybody got a blue ribbon with Centennial Quilt Show 2010, and the ones for 2012 were purple. The special award ribbons were big and fancy and the quilters who won were thrilled because they were not necessarily the best executed and they thought they would NEVER win a ribbon. The quilters that would normally win, I explained to each of them this was a for fun show and we didn't want them to feel they were being overlooked, it just was a fun way for people to experience "winning". The judges choice was won by an exceptional, hand quilted quilt that would win in almost any show.

As a new quilter, why would I bother to enter a show. Seems a little "rigged" to me. Is it really a "winner" if it has been to every show around for multiple years?? Thanks but no thanks.

Of course judging is very subjective. And I think it goes way beyond that, too. There are some folks' work I can pretty much recognize immediately (Patsy Thompson, Edyta Sitar, Sharon Schamber, etc) even without a name being on them. Now, I'm no judge by any stretch, but I think in those cases you would HOPE that a judge is just as objective as they can be, but I doubt they are often successful. I think there's a lot of politics that go into the major shows, too. And personal opinion has to enter it to some degree too. Quilts can ribbon at one show, and receive no recognition at the next. I don't know that I'd ever enter a quilt in a juried show (but, I'd never say never...), but I so far have only entered some in nonjuried shows and really liked it. If you hang around you can generally hear comments and know what people think about it. That's probably enough for me. :)

lady elizabeth--you have the right idea- i enjoy my quilting the one thing that spoils it is the politics that abounds in the community--i belive it is my quilt if i design it -sew it+quilt it-yes and bind it--unless i do all of it -i am ethically bound to credit any other paticipant--yes i amaware i cant spell!!!

Interesting. I know absolutely nothing about the ins and outs of showing anything, but surely if the quilt has won awards before or been "shown" via shows or electronic/print media before; it should be excluded from competition. Maybe well-knowns or professionals with known quilts could exhibit (therefore "advertise" themselves, their patterns and their previously awarded works) but be excluded from the judging. They get their kudos, but amateurs and professionals who have previously unawarded works get a fair chance of an award.

As some others have mentioned, I think it perfectly reasonable to mention the name/company of anyone who contributes to the work in question. There's many a quilter who can turn an average quilt top into a stunner, purely by picking the right design and thread to bring out it's best.

Just my opinion.

1. as somebody else pointed out, the quilting can change the character and appearance of a quilt completely.

the same goes for the binding. it's a tedious task and can be difficult to execute. in some cases the binding can improve or ruin the overall look of a quilt.

i would apply this principle to the design, too. if it wasn't my own design my conscience would demand that i acknowledge the designer and pattern by name.

If somebody else contributed to the finished quilt, whether paid or not, that somebody else should be given by-name credit. Since they were already paid, then I would not feel obligated to share the prize ... but i would feel obligated to share the credit.

2. it's up to the coordinators of each event to decide which quilts are and are not eligible for entry. if a quilt is eligible, the quilter should feel free to enter it - be it in 1 show or 100 shows.

3. fairness and objectivity are issues of character. if a person can be swayed by her/his knowledge/assumption of who made the quilt, that person should not be a judge. at a minimum they should recuse themselves from judging the particular quilt(s) in question.

a judge should also not feel obligated to discount any eligible quilt based on any criteria beyond eligibility requirements and technical merit. their job is hard enough to do without having to complicate things with "social expectations".

when i enter my quilts locally one of the first rules is....the entry can not have been entered in the past---even at the fair-
i do show off my quilts here on the board and a couple other places sometimes as they are coming together---never really thought about that having any bearing on them being entered in the local venues- i do not believe that has any effect on the outcome of the show---every one i've ever entered was judged and critiqued according to all of the (guidelines) the judges use- such as workmanship, appeal, balance, ect...not by the fact i made it- or have shown pictures of it on my facebook page. i think as long as rules are followed anyone should be able to show their work- regardless whether or not they have a book out or are well known...the show rules just need to be followed...if a quilt can not be entered that has been entered in the past then...that should be the case...

If someone is a famous designer/quilter and has a website and publishing patterns and books, making money from it,etc., why do they need the extra adulation of winning a prize? To me it reminds me of when they let professionals in the Olympics. The pros get paid millions of dollars, let the amateurs have the glory of winning the Olympics.

As far as more than one person working on the quilt, I used to hand quilt for a published designer/quiltmaker and I noticed when the books came out some of the captions would be, "pieced by Jane Smith" (not the author), "hand quilted by Barb" - so all the author did was design it. Not sure how I would feel about that if a quilt like that was entered in a show (as far as I know they weren't).

Wow. I hadn't even thought that much about judging quilts. I don't check blogs unless for a particular reason, though I do check websites if I want to know more4e about a designer/teacher.

I do absolutely know what you mean by those whose quilts are nationally/internationally known. ands ... that is a difficult subject. This how these quilters make their living. I think professional quilters, those who do commision work, etc maybe should have their own category, but have no idea how that would happen.

Then from there do we consider those who do the LA or whatever work as professional after they win so many shows for their work? Again, that is how they make their living.

Thanks PatriceJ for your input too.

This is a very interesting topic and would make a great roundtable type discussion program for a guild, maybe more so for those statewide associations with multiple guilds. Would be interesting to see all the vaariances of though and possible guidelines for categories and entry requirements.

Thanks for this discussion Jacquie.
ali

Having seen great quilts made by locals get trumped by professionals who have already won many or much recognitions. It is sad that they feel the need to play their quilt like a trump card. I think well written rules regarding the entry or classification can go far in if not eliminating or reducing this from happening. I find the comparision of the olympics amataur vs pro to be spot on. In my day we all called it bringing in a "ringer". Such "ringers" often defeat the intent of the show, and leave a lasting "bad taste" for those who wanted to have a high ethical standard. But unless there is a statement in the rules of submitting works that encompass what is the exeptable submission , then those "trump" cards can hold there head up and say " I have done nothing wrong".
I have seen many shows that do not allow kit quilts, or at least put them in a seperate category so that in viewing and judging , the value for pattern and fabrics selected are not valued in the judgment.
I love going to Quilt National , all works must be original , never been shown , or published either via book, magazine , or any media.
There have been some shows in my area that ,previously judged and shown quilts are allowed in for viewing after a certain number of years , but can not be in the compitition. That way a wide number of quilts can be shown to the public but keeps the judging portion of the show to only new works.

Oh my word, I never knew so much went into quilt judging. If I ever enter one of my quilts in a quilt show it would be just for fun and not for judging. I am thinking of entering one of my quilts in the Sister's quilt festival. I would be so proud to have it hung on one of the buildings and the Oooo and Awes would be prize enough for me.

Even pet shows have pure breeds and domestic categorys.
Quilting professionals should have a category of there own and non professionals should have a different category.
It is not fair to group them togather.

I've been to a lot of quilt shows, and I've entered my quilts in a lot of them. In the cases where a "nationally known" quilter won, I have never once been tempted to say the quilter won because of their name. The quilt was simply the best in the category.

As for professionals entering in local shows, it depends on the rules of the show. Personally, I think it would be crazy to restrict the pros from entering because it's one way of attracting people to the show. Instead of discouraging the non-pro, they should feel proud to compete against them - who knows, a non-pro might actually win, and the win would be all the sweeter for having beaten "the best."

Janet

Being a judge is not a fun or easy job I am sure.

Many years ago, I won the vendors award for my "Shakespeare in the Park". Yes, it was from a pattern, but was done in scraps of blue. I did it, had it quilted and I bound it and I won of or it. I did name the pattern and maker and who quilted it. I later was told, by a judge, that it would have won third place had I changed the design slightly and not named the pattern or the designer. That did it for me. None of my quilts that I enter into competition come from anything other than my head. No patterns! That being said, I have never won in another major quilt show. But the fun is seeing your quilt hanging, not in the winning, and the wonderful advice given by really great judging that helps you to become a better quilter.

I really like the way our county fair categorizes quilts. Each size/type category has lot numbers to enter:

Made by one person-hand quilted, (everything, start to finish)
Made by more than one person-hand quilted, (where a quilt would fit if a second non-professional person did the binding for example)
Made by one person, professionally quilted,
Made by more than one person, professionally quilted.
Made by one person-machine quilted, (everything, start to finish)
Made by more than one person-machine quilted, (where a quilt would fit if a second non-professional person did the binding or quilting for example)

And they go so far as to define "professional" as someone who makes at least 10% of their income from quilting.

These categories help to keep the judging on a more "level playing field", and there are a lot more ribbons awarded than if they were all judged together. I believe this categorization allows each quilt to be judged on the skill of execution of each type of quiltmaking.

To be eligible for entry, the quilt must have been made within the past year by a resident of our county.

The only thing they do not address is whether the design is original or not. I think the "Best of Show" last year may have been a very well executed KIT even though their were MANY very good originally designed quilts there. It was a little disheartening to see a kit-type quilt win when I'd seen essentially the same quilt at the LQS, in magazines, and in catalogs for sale as a pattern and/or kit all year long.

Personally, I think it is all taken a bit too seriously.

I have a long history in dog shows ... and nothing that I've seen so far can trump the shenanigans that happen at those.

Advertising. Many of you may not know it, but there are several dog magazines that have very slick advertising - including the cover page. Cost is upwards of $1000/page. Dogs are pictured with well known judges taking BIS. Is it wrong? Well, there ARE two reasons to advertise dogs - one is the same reason this original post started - to get the judges eye. The other reason is show pictures of your dog to other owners of that breed as we are all looking for the next stud dog, or dam to our next puppy. So if the original person's intention was to show the dog to her partners in the breed ... is it wrong if the judges also see it?? For quilters .... WE are also benefiting from seeing the pictures of the quilts are we not? So who is to say that the quilters intention of publishing the quilt is to garner a judges eye or "share" with the quilting world a technique in progress? I remember last year one of our own members posted here on QB a picture of a stunning Baltimore Album with beautiful ships when it was accepted into Paducah. Was that wrong because she shared it with US? Remember - anyone with internet can see what we post here, including Paducah judges.

As to some of the other remarks regarding entering winning quilts in multiple shows, showing quilts older than a specific date, entering quilts made from kits ... I think the shows that don't specify rules that limit this are at fault. If a show simply states "quilt must be 80 x 80" for this category, why blame the quilter for entering the show? I know some shows limit the year the work was produced, quilts that won 1st place cannot be accepted, and kits are not allowed.

I would disagree that quilt shows be segregated to professional and amateur. What classifies a "professional"? Teaching? I would disagree that being a teacher automatically means the person is also a good quilter. What about people who's only source of "income" from quilting is to win prize money at shows? I don't think "winning prize money" is the same as "getting paid to make a quilt". For that matter judges - professional or amateur? And what about the amateur who gets paid once to attach a binding once for someone - technically this person is now a professional regardless of the fact that they've never won a single award at a show. Lastly ... I think that quilting is an area where amateurs and professionals CAN compete with each other. There should be nothing other than skill that is judged and nothing is stopping an amateur from developing the same skills.

Sharing recognition. I know some quilt shows require that the pattern be divulged (even if it was BASED on a pattern) and the quilter (although the name of the person entering the show is usually the piecer and the only one to get prize money - if their contract with the quilter is to share the money - that is their business). I don't recall ever seeing a space to name the binder specifically but I do know some entry forms ask "name all people who worked on this quilt" or something to that effect. So again I would say that show entry forms need to be specific. If they want this data to be an important aspect of judging - then they need to specify it on the form.

If none of this information is on the form (dates, no kits, who quilted it, won prior shows, etc) then it is not something the judge should concern themselves with. Judges are hired to adjucate quilts based on the criteria set forth in the rules/entry forms - and beyond that the demonstrated skill and beauty of the final product. The name of the quilter and his/her past performance in the quilting world should never influence a judge even though his/her work may be as recognizable as the Mona Lisa. Nor should the judge be influenced by friendship.

Quilt judging, like dog judging IS subjective and therefore no two judges will always think alike, and any single judge can (and often will) think differently about the same quilt on different days and under different competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Paducah and Houston had the same judge and a quilt one big at one show but not the other - depending on A) the competition and B) the frame of mind of the judge on that given day. I've judged dogs and I KNOW that on different days I've liked different dogs - some of it could be how the dog performed on the given day but performance is only one factor, other factors could have been if I saw nothing but bad fronts all day long then I may be more critical toward fronts the remainder of the day and overly criticize a dog that I liked a lot before but only has a mediocre front.

Judges are human. If we want them to adjudicate a specific way we have to give them the proper rules to do so, and after that we need to remember that the nature of this beast is that judging is subjective.

Sue (who fully intends on entering the quilt she is binding today in a quilt show somewhere soon - PICTURES TO COME!!)

I know the categories we had in the county fair, which one of our guild members (a former president and LA'er),is the coordinator for the Home Arts, has rules set up. There are categories for professionals, amateurs, whether the piecer had also quilted the quilt or sent it to a professional quilter, as well as computerized vs. hand guided quilted, hand-quilting, and group quilts.

Well said! I hope you do enter your quilt, and show us the picture.

Janet

duplicate post

Succinctly put, Jacqui, and my thoughts exactly.
For personal reasons and for many of those stated in this topic, I do not enter judged shows. But even when I enter our local non-judged guild shows, I do not 'credit' those extraneous "helpers" unless it's maybe a long-armer who has done an unusually interesting job, as in other than a pantograph or overall meandering design, and I want to promote her work in the community.

I'm really enjoying this topic and appreciate Holice's astute comments!

Jan in VA

Years ago, before I even started quilting, a co-worker bought an Amish made quilt. Then she entered it in the county fair where it won a blue ribbon. We don't know if she put the Amish person's name on as the quilter or not. All of us that worked with her were apalled because we thought that entries were supposed to be the entrant's own work. Were we wrong? If an entrant can pay for the quilting and binding, why not pay for the whole quilt and enter it? Of course credit should be given to the true maker of the quilt.

It depends on the rules of the show, and sad to say, the honesty of the person entering.

The International Quilt Association has a rule that you can't enter a quilt where the top maker paid for someone to quilt it - if you don't do it all or enter as a group quilt, the quilt has to be a collaboration between two quilters. They did this so someone couldn't buy their way into a ribbon. But they're the only group that does this, to the best of my knowledge.

Janet

WOW, I think this is the only place I want to enter a Quilt.

Those of you who think credit does not need to be given to the longarmer obviously have never spent many hours longarming a customer quilt, doing a semi-custom or custom job (which works out to only a couple dollars per hour), only to have the quilter enter and win a judged show without giving any credit to the longarmer. I know a longarmer this happened to. It is dishonest, pure and simple. It is also a dishonest way to win, unfair to the other entrants who also used a longarmer and correctly entered their quilts in the group category. Of course credit should always be given where credit is due!

I think, as been stated in this post, that the rules of each show must be thoughtfully determined and published. That part can be controlled, but you can't control the integrity of the show entrants. There will always be a few people who will give false information or bend the rules in order to improve their chances of winning. The same is true in anything.
Dayle

God bless the judges !! I wouldn't want to any part of the judging process. Sounds too complicated for me. Maybe that's why I would never consider entering any quilt of mine in a show or is it because I would be laughed out of the country LOL !!!

I'd love to enter a quilt that I made because I am curious as to how a judge would judge it. I am a person who does the entire quilt from the piecing to the hand quilting and completing it w/ the binding. I don't have a problem w/ people using other's patterns - the piecing and choice of fabrics will make the final product look different.

I also don't think I have a problem w/ entering the quilt in multiple shows. Heck, if I had something that good, I'd want to show it off for all to see!!

I will say that I think there is a huge difference in competing w/ pros and those of us who quilt as a hobby.

I have never entered a quilt competition nor would I for this very reason. I have often thought that professional and semi-professional quilters do have an advantage and they should not be permitted to preview their work anywhere before a competition It would be different if they were competing against each other. We recently had television a series presented by a celebrity who entered various craft competitions at country fayres in the UK. The entrants were all anonymous so the judges had no idea of their identity. When she won a particular category (deservedly) she was genuinely surprised. Competitors should be allocated a number so that their identity would not be known to the judges. Obviously some judges will recognise the style of a particular artist, but they could never be certain if it was the same person. Perhaps there should be standardised and regulated entry levels for previous award winning quilts so that up and coming amateurs have a chance.